Author Topic: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring  (Read 972 times)

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7044
Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« on: December 02, 2024, 04:03:39 PM »
Hi Folks,

A few weeks ago, a friend and client, for whom I've made several muskets, brought me his Miroku model 1766 Charleville musket.  It is the best commercial reproduction of any Rev War period musket ever made. The frizzen did not open completely upon firing.  This was the classic example.  Watching it fire, you would swear the frizzen did not open all the way.  However, the flint was the right size, the mainspring strong and the feather spring (frizzen spring) was not very strong. So, I held a bit of paper on the top of the feather spring where the curl of the toe of the frizzen hits it and fired the lock.  There was a dimple on the paper indicating the frizzen opened fully but rebounded. Everyone watching was surprised because they could swear the frizzen did not open.  I told all of them that you cannot see rebound.  Don't kid yourself thinking you can.   

The feather spring was too weak and needed work.  So I took the lock home to fix it.  Unfortunately, when I polished up the spring before working on it, I found it had a network of cracks.  At first I thought they were shallow and tried to polish them off but some were deep. That might explain why a well functioning lock suddenly stopped working right.  So, I decided to forge a replacement. I have some great 1075 steel from Bob Roller and used it to create a new spring.  Here is how I did it.

First, I needed to measure the length of the steel required.  I placed tape on the original to measure the length.



I used a piece of 1075 spring steel that Bob Roller sent me and used tape to establish the important points such as where the pin is located and where the finial for the screw is located.




Using the tape as a guide, I cut the steel and created the template.  The template had sufficient excess steel to form the peg but also a wider section to form the finial and boss for the screw. 




I cut out the spring blank with a hacksaw and filed away excess areas.  I also cut part way through the blank to create the neck for the finial.



Next I heat the neck red hot and twist it perpendicular to the spring and file off any excess created by the twisting.







Now I have a base for the finial.  Time to weld on steel "blobbies".  I have a simple oxy/acetylene torch and use mild steel rod.



I shape the blobby to form the finial and boss for the screw.  Small files are handy.







Next I shape the pin after determining its exact location.  I left a lot of excess steel on the blank so I could adjust its location to match the lock plate.



Using my belt sander and files, I tapered the spring so it narrows toward its end and then I cleaned up both sides of the spring with files and sand paper.  It is easier to do this before bending the spring. 



I don't obsess about getting out all scratches.  There is a persistent notion that you cannot have any nicks or transverse scratches because the spring will break as if it is a pane of glass.  That is nonsense.  Here is a spring used for 250 years.  Note all the file marks.



Tomorrow, I bend, final shape, heat treat, and polish the spring.

dave     



"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Hatchet-Jack

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2024, 04:39:09 PM »
Thanks for the tutorial Dave! Does Bob sell 1075 steel? If not what supplier do you recommend?

Offline flatsguide

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 881
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2024, 05:17:03 PM »
Nice work and nice photography.
Richard

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7044
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2024, 10:54:02 PM »
Thanks for the tutorial Dave! Does Bob sell 1075 steel? If not what supplier do you recommend?

Hi,
No, I don't think Bob sells metal retail.  I haven't bought new steel for so long because I've had a large supply for years.  Some from Dixie Gun Works but other bars from any number of online metal suppliers.  I have no favorites.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7044
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2024, 11:06:06 PM »
When I bend a spring, I mark the middle of the bend with a swipe of a small round file.  That gives me a mark that shows up even when red hot.  I anchor the finial end of the blank in a vise and use a MAPP gas torch to heat the spring at the bend until bright red.  Be patient.  Let the metal heat up all the way to bright red before you try to bend it.  I use a large needle nose pliers to grab the metal across the middle of the bend and turn the pliers until the spring is bent about 2/3s of the way.  Then I take the spring out of the vise holding by the pliers and heat the bend until bright red and hammer the bend the rest of the way with a ball peen hammer and anvil.




Then I straighten out any rough spots, and make sure the leaves are aligned horizontally and none bent on an angle. After cooling, I start final shaping.  Next I use files to give the spring a little Frenchy flair just like the originals.



I install the spring on the lock and make sure everything fits right.  You know when it is going to be a good spring when it works without any hardening and tempering. 




I make a base and wall of fire brick and insert a hooked handle made from welding rod into the screw hole.  Using 2 MAPP gas torches, I heat the spring until bright orangey red then quench it in warm brine.  Brine is simply water mixed with salt and I heat it until it feels warm to the touch.



Then I pop the spring in my oven and set the controller to heat the spring to 750 degrees F for 1 hour. 




After baking, I let it air cool slowly and now I have a spring.  I polish it with fine sandpaper dipped in water and it is ready to go.  It looks right too.





A little spark testing and even with the flash guard in the way, you can see a lot of sparks.





So tomorrow, I pop the lock in a box and send it off to the owner.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline whetrock

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2024, 11:16:40 PM »
Great tutorial, Smart Dog. Great photography.
I find it's helpful to use bending tongs for this sort of thing. (Some people call them scroll tongs.) I have a couple pairs of small ones I made from needle nosed plyers, by grinding off the teeth then reforging the jaws to round in cross section. The round jaw helps keeps the bend smooth and even as it is forming.
 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 06:30:34 AM by whetrock »

Offline P.W.Berkuta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2226
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2024, 11:34:31 PM »
Thanks for the tutorial Dave! Does Bob sell 1075 steel? If not what supplier do you recommend?
Try here<https://newjerseysteelbaron.com/#ce91/fullscreen/m=and&q=1075>. I've bought 1075 from them in the past - no complaints.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline StevenV

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2024, 03:51:27 AM »
Thank You , that was really good.        Steve

Offline FDR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2024, 04:17:53 AM »

Offline PhDBrewer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2024, 09:27:43 AM »
Dave,
Do you ever use your furnace to harden the springs?
I started to use a furnace to ensure the proper temp and consistent heating throughout.
I have made quite a few springs and I am now using a furnace with an accurate temp control.

Any pointers? Observations?
I use 1075 and 6150 (cast parts).
Thanks in advance,
William

Offline Steeltrap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 794
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2024, 02:29:59 PM »
“Blobbies” in making parts. Pretty cool!!  Be careful with spellcheck that it doesn’t replace that first “l” with an “o”.  ;)

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7044
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2024, 03:21:06 PM »
“Blobbies” in making parts. Pretty cool!!  Be careful with spellcheck that it doesn’t replace that first “l” with an “o”.  ;)

You know, the blobs are kind of like those other things. :D

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7044
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2024, 03:57:03 PM »
Hi William,
I used my furnace for some very large springs and it works fine.  I set the temperature to 1550 degrees F and let it heat soak for 20 minutes or so before quenching.  However, using the furnace is slow and I really don't need to use it for most springs.  Heating with 2 MAPP gas torches is much faster and I get even color even on fairly large springs like those used on Brown Besses.  I believe most Rifle Shoppe springs are 6150 steel.  I treat them about the same as 1075 by heating them to bright orange but although oil quench is recommended for 6150, I use brine with good success. I also still temper it at 750 degrees F.  Before hardening cast springs, I heat them to bright orange and let them air cool slowly to normalize them.   

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4513
    • Personal Website
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2024, 04:23:27 PM »
Lots of ways to skin a cat...  Another method to consider is to just start with thicker stock and cut the thickness down in the required area, leaving enough for the thicker end.  This is easily accomplished with a metal cutting bandsaw, a decent belt grinder, a mill or even a hacksaw.  No welding etc. required.

Offline Clowdis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2024, 04:53:19 PM »
I have to admire your welding skill with your ability to "stick a blob of weld" on the small spring without having it full of pits. Nice job!

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7044
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2024, 05:13:37 PM »
Lots of ways to skin a cat...  Another method to consider is to just start with thicker stock and cut the thickness down in the required area, leaving enough for the thicker end.  This is easily accomplished with a metal cutting bandsaw, a decent belt grinder, a mill or even a hacksaw.  No welding etc. required.

Hi Jim,
For sure but I don't have a metal cutting bandsaw or a mill so welding is a lot faster and easier for me.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4513
    • Personal Website
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2024, 07:52:11 PM »
Yeah, I hear you.  Use what you have and are comfortable with.  It turned out good.  Another option is to just forge it thinner.  A torch would do the heating fine.  You could make up a simple top and bottom guillotine type die set that could be struck to more precisely form the thickness.  So many options...

Online Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9736
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2024, 08:05:47 PM »
I seldom made frizzen springs but did make sear springs from 1075  that was 3/16" .187) thick.I bought 1075 from McMaster_Carr and from others whose names I don't remember.
Bob Roller

Offline Hatchet-Jack

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2024, 08:25:02 PM »
Thanks for the tutorial Dave! Does Bob sell 1075 steel? If not what supplier do you recommend?
Try here<https://newjerseysteelbaron.com/#ce91/fullscreen/m=and&q=1075>. I've bought 1075 from them in the past - no complaints.

Here is another source for 1075:
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/strips/material~1075-spring-steel/

Fred

Thank you both!

Offline PhDBrewer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2024, 10:53:11 PM »
Dave, et all..
I have not been able to find any high carbon (only mild steel ER-70S or similar) filler rod for TIG welding "blobs" on springs, frizzens & cocks, or repairing sears & tumblers.
Is this an appropriate fix for these parts?  does the TIG burn out the carbon from the metal?
What would be best for modify/repairing high carbon parts, 6150 or 1075?
Thanks!

William

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7044
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2024, 01:13:38 AM »
Hi William,
I do not use high carbon steel for the finial.  I use 1/8" mild steel rod.  I don't want the steel hardening during welding, which would make shaping the finial a nightmare.  Nor is it necessary because the finial does not share in any spring action.  It just provides a decorative platform and surround for the screw.  Moreover, in my method, the base is high carbon steel because it is part of the spring.  I have no trouble ever welding mild steel to the higher carbon spring steel.
I also use the mild steel rod for fixing damage to tumblers, bridles, and sears.  In fact, I have reconstructed tumbler notches several times using mild steel rod.  I have even reshaped tumblers with mild steel rod. However, I then case harden the part.  That adds the necessary carbon to give strength and wear resistance.

dave
« Last Edit: December 04, 2024, 01:20:42 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline PhDBrewer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2024, 03:53:11 AM »
Thanks Dave!
I have done similar metal additions for cocks & frizzens. I agree case hardening is what one should do for wear surfaces or "sparky" areas. I was curious if it was possible and used in lock making.
It is possible, just really not worth the effort..
Not being able to find any high carbon rod, was my first clue. Smile.
Thanks again for the input!

William

Offline James Wilson Everett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Making a Feather (Frizzen) Spring
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2024, 03:35:05 PM »
Guys,

Here is a tutorial on making the frizzen spring.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=25950.msg247984#msg247984