Linen patching material source

[Jerry V Lape]

Sometime ago one of you provided a website fabric source from which you were able to purchase suitable linen for patching.  Would you be so kind as to repeat the website please? 

[Dphariss]

http://www.fabric.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=7755045d-b9a3-47f6-b7d0-418bdd323eab&CategoryID=53eab6cb-2d14-4106-b14f-b068ac806027

They have other linen as well.
This is about .010-.012 thick if its the same stuff I ordered about 2 years ago.
Fairly tight weave.
I wash it and dry it to try to shrink it somewhat.
Dan

[SCLoyalist]

If you have a JoAnn Fabric store near you, they sell linen, too.  The stuff I bought was just shy of .015 thick.  I think there were a couple of other bolts of linen on the same rack that may have had different thicknesses.

[IRONSIGHT]

You can also get pillow ticking at Walmart real cheap. The blue striped,and red striped are $4.17 a yard. If your not worried about color they also have a tan striped for $3.97 a yard.

[Dphariss]

If you have a JoAnn Fabric store near you, they sell linen, too.  I believe it's just shy of .015 thick.

Might depend on the individual store I guess.
All I have ever gotten is a blank stare or shown some synthetic look alike but I have not tried lately having given up some time back.

Dan

[markwi]

I was to Jo-Ann Fabric after Christmas and got pillow ticking 100% cotton, blue. The # for it is 400011200701 at 6.99 a yard. the wife had a coupons for 40% off so I got 2yrds for 8.82 with Wi. tax  My wife always has coupons. It mics at .0215 and I can tighten it to .0115 . Our  Wal-marts keep reducing what they carry on many things so we look else where. I would just as soon look else any way. They do have linen, but I have not tried them yet. Mark

[JBlk]

You can usually find alot of linen items at hosehold auctions.I purchased my first linen from a bridal dress shop but since then I have acquired enough for a lifetime at auctions.

[Pvt. Lon Grifle]

Sadly, few older women who are sewing knowledgeable are at places like wally's or even some real fabric shops. The younger ones generally don't know enough to help you find what you want. 

Look on the end of the bolt for a lable as to origin and content. Some sheeting, some ticking, denim, canvas, and linen may work fine if woven tightly. Most of these goods have sizing (like starch) applied to the cloth as it is finished and pressed in manufacture. When you wash it a time or two, it will "fluff" up a little drying.  Here in NC winters are less humid because of heating and summers more humid because of AC. Cotton expands (thickens) in summer, contracts(gets tighter) in winter. Measurements change, but I don't change what the load is using.   Lon

[Naphtali]

You can also get pillow ticking at Walmart real cheap. The blue striped,and red striped are $4.17 a yard. If your not worried about color they also have a tan striped for $3.97 a yard.

I have been told that linen, of the same weight, is significanlty more abrasion resistant than pillow ticking - therefore, significantly better patching material. Is this information accurate?

[Jerry V Lape]

Naphtali,  linen is supposed to be about 3 time stronger than cotten and is known to wear much better in most applications.  I am trying to find linen of the appropriate thickness to experiment for my own purposes.  But the linen I have found at fabric stores is either too thin for patching or too open a weave.  Much of what they are selling as linen, if you look at the info on the end of the roll, is blended with rayon or some other synthetic and therefore not suitable.  

My specific interest arises from the likelyhood that linen would have been the patching material most commonly available in Pennsylvania during the early development of the American Longrifle.  I just want to see if it's performance is significantly different from cotton/denim and perhaps allows easier loading in patches still tough enough to survive firing.   

[Kermit]

Try asking for "artist's linen canvas." I bought my last at JoAnn, but not sure if they still carry it. You have to be pretty clear about UNDYED ARTISTS LINEN or you get sent to the stuff for pretty light clothing, often blended with synthetics. That's "linen look," which clothing folk don't mind cuz it's cheaper.

Art supply places carry undyed natural linen canvas for oil/acrylic painting. It'll often come 60" wide and cost you maybe $20 a yard in some shops. One piece of mine is 72" wide.

I put a mic on it just now, and the two hunks I have (a lifetime supply, methinks) measure at .014 and .013--this after washing and drying. The thicker of the two is more open weave, and the thinner is quite a bit tighter.

[Jerry V Lape]

Kermit, good tip about the artists linen canvas!  I have a very well stocked artist supply house two miles away but never thought to see what they might have in linen.  Try that tomorrow. 

[Mad Monk]

Naphtali,  linen is supposed to be about 3 time stronger than cotten and is known to wear much better in most applications.  I am trying to find linen of the appropriate thickness to experiment for my own purposes.  But the linen I have found at fabric stores is either too thin for patching or too open a weave.  Much of what they are selling as linen, if you look at the info on the end of the roll, is blended with rayon or some other synthetic and therefore not suitable.  

My specific interest arises from the likelyhood that linen would have been the patching material most commonly available in Pennsylvania during the early development of the American Longrifle.  I just want to see if it's performance is significantly different from cotton/denim and perhaps allows easier loading in patches still tough enough to survive firing.   

Jerry,

Into the late 1700's linen would have been the choice.  From what I read cotton was more expensive than linen until the cotton gin was invented .

Linen continued to be used for ship sails long after cheaper cotton cloth became available.  When linnen gets wet it holds its strength.  Cotton does not.  Which is why it remained in use for ships sails.


Going back to the early 1980's with Sam Fadala and C.P. Wood.  A good bit of discussion at time on the value of linen as a patching material.  Woody used to buy linnen sold to make tablecloths when women would sit and decorate the table cloths with needlepoint work.  They would not buy linen towcloth.  The towcloth is made from short flax fibers while the tablecloth material was the very long flax fibers.

With linen patches there is no danger of fires in dry grass as with cotton.  Takes a good bit more heat to ignite linen than it does cotton.  Also the very long fibers of the linen allows the patch to form around the ball without crimping.  The long flax fibers have very smooth surfaces so the fabric's fibers slip and give when you load the ball.  Cotton fibers are short and kinky.

When Woody bought tablecloth linen in the early 1980's he was paying around $10 to $12 per yard then.  I have no idea what good tablecloth linen of the right thickness would cost today.

When I read something written by some shooter in the mid-1800's he was talking about using cast off linen shirts for his patching.

Bill k.

[Roger Fisher]

Naphtali,  linen is supposed to be about 3 time stronger than cotten and is known to wear much better in most applications.  I am trying to find linen of the appropriate thickness to experiment for my own purposes.  But the linen I have found at fabric stores is either too thin for patching or too open a weave.  Much of what they are selling as linen, if you look at the info on the end of the roll, is blended with rayon or some other synthetic and therefore not suitable.  

My specific interest arises from the likelyhood that linen would have been the patching material most commonly available in Pennsylvania during the early development of the American Longrifle.  I just want to see if it's performance is significantly different from cotton/denim and perhaps allows easier loading in patches still tough enough to survive firing.   

Jerry,

Into the late 1700's linen would have been the choice.  From what I read cotton was more expensive than linen until the cotton gin was invented .

Linen continued to be used for ship sails long after cheaper cotton cloth became available.  When linnen gets wet it holds its strength.  Cotton does not.  Which is why it remained in use for ships sails.


Going back to the early 1980's with Sam Fadala and C.P. Wood.  A good bit of discussion at time on the value of linen as a patching material.  Woody used to buy linnen sold to make tablecloths when women would sit and decorate the table cloths with needlepoint work.  They would not buy linen towcloth.  The towcloth is made from short flax fibers while the tablecloth material was the very long flax fibers.

With linen patches there is no danger of fires in dry grass as with cotton.  Takes a good bit more heat to ignite linen than it does cotton.  Also the very long fibers of the linen allows the patch to form around the ball without crimping.  The long flax fibers have very smooth surfaces so the fabric's fibers slip and give when you load the ball.  Cotton fibers are short and kinky.

When Woody bought tablecloth linen in the early 1980's he was paying around $10 to $12 per yard then.  I have no idea what good tablecloth linen of the right thickness would cost today.

When I read something written by some shooter in the mid-1800's he was talking about using cast off linen shirts for his patching.

Bill k.

Bill has just enlightened me again on several questions.   The linen I had several or more yrs ago was a v coarse weave and I was not happy with it for than reason only!

[ken]

We have found that Wade Reynolds of Carolina Calico is a good source for linen and other period correct fabrics. He is a shooter and understands the needs of shooters for good quality fabric for patch material. He has a web site but the address escapes me right now. If you Google Carolia Calico you should find it.
Ken
P.S. He always has a mic on hand.

[Jerry V Lape]

Ken,

Google didn't locate Carolina Calico, do you have any more info on his website?

[Daryl]

The only linen I've found locally, was extremely thin - about like 600TPI bed sheets and useless for patching round balls that aren't well over bore size, imho, of course.

[Ky-Flinter]

Jerry, try this......

http://www.carolinacalicoes.com/

-Ron

[Jerry V Lape]

I have now found several sources and am gathering samples.  Once I have them in hand and can look at thickness, tightness of weave etc I will post my findings. 

[George Sutton]

I use .015 pure linen from Jo-Ann's Fabric. You can hold it up to the light and see through it. I shoot a .58 caliber rifle using the linen, 85 Grains of 3f Goex, and a .562 round ball.

No tearing of the patch, no loss of accuracy, and I can load it without a short starter.

Centershot

[Daryl]

Centershot - I might just try that in the .58 double rifle for a hunting proposition, but all other times I've tried any sort of a loose combo, the accuracy has failed at 50 yards and beyond.   

[zimmerstutzen]

Utrecht Art supplies sells authentic linen canvas.  available mail order from their web site.    If you want an authentic shelter widths to 10 feet.

[George Sutton]

I like linen so much, I'm using it in some of my other rifles.

I'm getting excellent results in my Ken Netting smoothie using a .600 rb, .010 linen patch and 65 grains of 3f Goex. I can keep them in the black at 50 yds.

The linen, when you look at it, looks pretty loosly woven but it's tough stuff.

In the past, I always used a very tight patch ball combo. I've come to believe that it's not necessary for good accuracy.

Centershot

[robert gene]

A few years ago, I found out about "dressform linen". It's very tightly woven, undyed pure linen. Goes over the old forms that pattern makers use. it's tough so the pattern makers could use it many times. Mine miked at about 18 and you can't blow through it. Works great. I found it on evilbay and have never found any more. If anyone does please tell me. Its just what we're lookin' for.

[westerner]

I purchased .012 Linen from JoAnns fabrics last week. It was about 17.50 a yard.  It works better than cotton when patching flat base pickets in my rifle.  They load silky smooth.  Some of the patches blew out at the base leaving a nice round hole in the center of the patch. POI didnt change.  I like Linen!

                         Joe.