J&S Hawken build complete!

[CooleyS]

You've done a very nice job building this Hawken rifle.  You started with a nice stick of wood and good components.  The hook in the buttplate has enough heel and the braze line is a nice touch.  I'd like to have seen 1/16" pins instead of 3/32" for the entry thimble.  Your wood is filled nicely and your finishing is crisp...nice!  Your milled under-rib will have added more weight than a sheet steel rib, but that's minor.  Nice job inletting the tang and breech and fitting the bolster/snail to the plate.  The alignment of the hammer cup and the nipple is good too.  Your engraving is perfect for such a rifle...congrats on a fine build.

I need to learn how to make a sheet metal under rib…may need to pick your brain on that one! I hope you, Herb, Dave and others know how much your written knowledge helps out on these builds. Thanks for the compliments and the suggestions. The 3/32” pin mistake I blame on the TOTW screw set they sell. It comes with the 3/32” pin and I simply didn’t think about using smaller 1/16” pins. I immediately regretted it and agree that they should have been 1/16”. Oh well, next time!

[Daryl]

Those escutcheon plates & eagle on the cheek piece appear to have "grown there. VERY nicely inlet.
The tang and lock as well. Good job.

[Roger B]

Wyoming Armory did the case coloring on my Roller locks & triggers with great results. Can't say enough good about them.

[alacran]

How the heck did I miss this? Your Hawken is absolutely beautiful. Nothing ever came out of the Hawken shop whether by the Hawken bros or Gemmer that was as well made as your rifle. I have looked at all the photos you have posted and blown them up and your inlets are extremely good.
Congratulations!
By the way in Taylor's tutorial on Hawkens he uses an MBS hollow under rib and shows how the sides can be filed to make it look like a folded or swaged under rib. I have done this, and it takes substantial weight off the under rib and looks more correct.

[CooleyS]

I’ve Taylor’s tutorial so many times, I finally made a PDF file of it and printed it! Ha! I actually filed out a practice piece of under rib flat on the sides and found that I liked the looks of the concave style better and it followed the tapered barrel contour better. One of my favorite aspects of J&S Hawken rifles is the variation and individuality they show. This can be seen in the under ribs too. Several  J&S’s that I was able to handle have an under rib with the concave sides and I liked the look of it better. I’ve seen them both ways on J&S rifles, however the Sam Hawken rifles were almost exclusively straight on the sides. It seems that Sam took a more production approach rather than the custom approach seen on Jacob and Sam’’s rifles. However, one thing about Hawken rifles, there are no absolutes! Here are two J&S rifles that I photographed at Jim Gordon’s that have the style of under rib with the concave sides. Not sure if these would have been milled or bent sheet metal.
-Steve

[t.caster]

One of the sweetest Hawkins I have seen! Beautiful work, engraving & accuracy!

[coopersdad]

Beautifully done in every respect!  That is an inspirational build. 

[Mule Brain]

Very nice build, drooling over that patch box

[Realwarrior]

You have built a Beautiful Hawken!

[JTR]

Outstanding workmanship!
You have quite the touch!
John

[Bill in Md]

In a world of computer generated gun "kits" , this is a breath of fresh air. Well done indeed....You cannot go wrong with a Bobby Hoyt barrel for that true custom touch!

[Bob Roller]

Fine work in spite of the low end lock and triggers.Thanks for showing this.I doubt if Jake and Sam ever made one this well dome with
the superb inletting and engraving.Your accuracy report says a lot for the barrel maker and your loading techniques as well.
Bob Roller

[hortonstn]

Now that's a good looking Hawkin, well done

[Leatherbark]

That is a very beautiful and useful rifle.

Bob

[oldtravler61]

   One of the best Hawkens I've seen. Extremely well done..

[Bob Roller]

I had no intention to post a second note here but I have had calls wanting to know if I was planning to make any more locks and triggers for Hawken copies.At this point in time I have no plans to revive any shop work. Most if not all this work is done standing and I have a lower back issue that prevents standing for hours a thing of the past.My wife has health problems that make leaving her alone a bad idea.She has a pocket phone and so do I but she leaves hers in the front room and she may be in the kitchen.She fell a while back and I had to get help to get her up and two carpenters working on a house across the street got her up.I am nearly 89 and she is 82.Thanks for the inquiries but I can't make anything now and am glad we no longer need to work.Most locks and triggers now will surpass anything used in the 18 and when evers on American guns.
Bob Roller

[Blacksmoke]

Hey Bob,  Sorry to hear about your wife and your back problems!  I am so much an admire of your work!!  But the ravages of time comes to each of us!  I am 84 and have rifled my last barrel and built my last rifle some time ago!! How ever you still have the smarts upstairs and can add lots of much needed help to the younger builders!! Same here, so keep up with the tutorials on how to do things proper!! H.T.

[Bob Roller]

Blacksmoke,Thank you for the nice comments on my work.In spite of having the combined IQ of an oyster and a potted plant we did OK.
Until I connected with the German market for locks I was doing work in another machine shop that catered to the coal mining industry her in WVa and after that I  was hired as the first machinist in a restarted optics maker that made it big during WW2.It was owned by a retired eye surgeon who had retired from active medical practice.The business failed because of slow payments from the government. After that,a short time in a babbit bearing shop.I was laid off from it and found out from the office girl later that the three top men were stealing babbit and selling it to competitors at a much reduced cost.They went to prison for three years.The Germans told me that they'd buy all the locks and triggers I would make so between that and helping a friend with his European car repair garage  catering to Mercedes,Jaguar,Volvo,BMW and nothing from Asia for any reason.
Bob Roller

[one shot wonder]

Very nice looking Hawken. 
  As some one new to muzzle loaders, what would a rifle like this cost?
  Thanks

[CooleyS]

I don't really make many rifles to sell and wouldn't have any idea of what this one would sell for...not that you'd ever be able to pry my hands off this one, I'm partial to it for sure. Building a rifle takes me a long time, but it's the details that really add up. Looking at historical engraving designs and then applying them to the build, making a two-piece nose case took me a long time to get right for example. A person is going to have an opportunity here shortly to purchase a Kibler Hawken kit and have a fine rifle when they are done with it, complete with machine engraving perhaps.
-Steve

[Itchy finger]

Probably my favorite build I’ve seen. Beautiful!
I’m about to start a Hawken build and your another one who said for your first one, a full stock would be easier. Can you explain why a half stock is more difficult than a full stock.

[CooleyS]

Probably my favorite build I’ve seen. Beautiful!
I’m about to start a Hawken build and your another one who said for your first one, a full stock would be easier. Can you explain why a half stock is more difficult than a full stock.

I'm not the one who said that a full stock would be easier than a half stock, but irregardlessly (my favorite word that isn't a word), a half stock is just a little more involved than a full stock, but not necessarily harder in my opinion. The metal work to fit the hook breech together tightly takes time and patience, but otherwise isn't terribly hard. By epoxying or soldering the breech together into one piece it makes the inletting job the same as regular long tang breech plug. Installing a metal under rib with the ramrod pipes fit and soldered is also extra metal work, but again isn't real hard. D. Taylor Sapergia has a very well written post called Hawken Stuff (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37886.0) where he goes over in detail how he does these tasks. I actually made his post into a word document, printed it off and use it as a reference frequently. Good luck with your build and ask questions, there is a wealth of information here on ALR.
-Steve

[whetrock]

Itchy Finger,
I think it depends entirely on how much experience and skill you have with your tools and techniques, and whether or not you have a patient mentor.

My first build was a full stock VA rifle in .45. Straight grain walnut. Everything went fine. Very enjoyable. Far from perfect, but very enjoyable. No mentor, but had the Hershel House rifle building video, which I watched about 25 times throughout the build. Had a lot of fun.

My second was a .32 half stock TN mountain rifle (actually, more like 3/4 stock). Still had no mentor. Crotch figure walnut. Very chippy. Used a cut-down Green mountain barrel, so as to get the length I wanted. Had no experience with muzzle treatment, so that was a learning curve. I made the rib from scratch from cold-rolled stuff from Lowes. Shaped it with a bench grinder and files. Screwed it to the bottom of the barrel. Didn't have a proper drill press (just a hand drill on a cheap Sears brand stand). Didn't have prior experience with tapping blind holes. Poured a pewter cap. Had a bear of a time with that, with voids, and no idea at the time on how to deal with them. Cut the whole thing out once and did it over. I was in over my head the whole time. Did not have fun and swore I'd never build another half stock.

Being true to my promise, I haven't built another one. But now, years later and having a lot more experience under my belt, I think I could build another now without being stressed. But that first half-stock (or 3/4) was too big a step for me at the time.

I think it's a good idea for a first build to be fun. Simple enough that you have a high chance of success and a positive experience.

Just commenting about my own experience. I'm sure others on here have different experiences.

[Itchy finger]

Cooley thanks for your comments.
When I bought my Lyman’s GPR in 1999 I also bought an extra barrel with the faster twist. So I have one extra barrel and tang. It already has the rib, wedge anchors and ramrod hoops. So maybe it would make it a little easier idk.

I’m not a Hawken nutcase but I do like my GPR, the halfstock, the lines, and the Hawken look,
Cool gun.

[Itchy finger]

Whetrock, Thank you and I appreciate your comments. I’ve been a carpenter for 45 years and have made some cabinets and other projects so I know how to use chisels, saws, drills etc but have zero experience building a long rifle. So i already admit im probably going in over my head. Thing is I have a few 48” cherry and maple logs from my family’s property that I would love to use for this project. Gonna be sort of a handme down.
I just figured out I live about 40 mins from Pecatonica so I went and talked to those guys and they were very helpful and free with their knowledge. They would carve my blanks and I thought I’d have them cut the barrel inlet and I would do the rest. That’s the plan anyway so until the blanks are dry and ready I’m doing lots of research and reading and would like to get the Hershel video. I’ve watched most of Bill Raby videos, he’s helped a lot.