American Flintlock pistol build

[Steeltrap]

I know I have other threads that focus on specific parts for this pistol, so instead of all the clutter I thought I'd post the progress of the entire pistol. Comments and criticism is more than welcome. You cannot possibly hurt my feelings.

This is where I'm at right now. Not final sanded at this point (obviously) but "moving up" shaping the wood towards the muzzle. The TG is being held down by a conical and the pic was originally upside down, but I wanted to get some perspective on what the TG will look like when I finish the TG. So, I took the pics of the pistol upside down in the vice, then flipped 'em.

Anyway, comments are more than welcome.

[Bob Gerard]

I would think that if you have to take wood off at and behind the rear entry pipe area, you might need to re-inlet (deepen) your trigger guard and plate.

[Daryl]

That's quite interesting. I've never seen a trigger guard like that before.

[Steeltrap]

That's quite interesting. I've never seen a trigger guard like that before.

The TG I’m fabricating from sheet brass. I’m waiting for additional sheet brass to come in order to finish the rear curve “tail” of the TG.

[Steeltrap]

I would think that if you have to take wood off at and behind the rear entry pipe area, you might need to re-inlet (deepen) your trigger guard and plate.

I’m not quite sure what you’re saying. The TG is not completed and not yet inletted in the stock.

[Steeltrap]

Bob,

If you were referring to the distance from the entry pipe to the foot of the TG, I'm modeling this pistol after the Chambers American Flintlock Pistol as shown in the photo below. This pistol has more wood in front of the TG than say a Kentucky pistol.

[Bigmon]

I suppose that pistols are similar enough to rifles, that it would be true to"remove all the wood you dare, and then take some more off".  It seems to me that one of the biggest errors beginning builders make is not removing enough wood.  And in the correct areas of course.
I just finished a pistol kit.  It was alot of work.  I had most trouble trying to hold it solid in a vice.  I think that if I do another it will be from a plank, so to speak.  And I ill leave enogh wood on the butt and muzzle area so I can clamp in my vice, up until the last when I have to remove the extra?  Does any of that make sense as a way to hold the thing while working on it?

[Bob Roller]

My pistol making was last done years ago when I made a saw handle 50 caliber flint lock and after the barrel was secured and the lock inletted I used the side flats and the barrel above the barrel channel and did the rest of the work needed.This was not a fancy gun but it won several events in competition.The owner told me several shooters wanted to know where that fast lock came from and he told them and all agreed it cost too much money.I think it was an L&R/Roller Manton with a rounded tail of the plate.(Maybe).The man I made it for was diagnosed with terminal cancer and he called me and told me he was returning the pistol to me and I offered to refund the cost he paid and he said "No".I got it,shot it some and sold it again to a man here who has a collection of my locks and triggers and a Gemmer styled breech loader I made and he still has it.This forum revives long ago memories in my feeble mind and I am glad it's here.
Bob Roller

[Bigmon]

Your mind doesn't seem so feeble to me Bob!

[Steeltrap]

Bigmon,

This project started out as a block of wood, then I cut the barrel channel and drilled\chiseled out the RR hole.



Then, fast forward to where I am now. Since every measurement goes off the barrel, I leave on a reasonable amount of wood and as I go through the process of inletting the lock plate and the side plate, I try to keep all 4 sides "square" to each other. Once I have the lock working, and the side plate inletted I then move to the trigger plate. Of course, I sand down the grip curve to where the center\middle will be but still keep the wood square. I also drill lock bolt holes and the barrel pin while I still have a square chunk of wood to work with. Today I'm removing wood from the RR channel to get it to a 1/8" depth. Then, while the wood is still square I'll inlet the RR pipes and drill the pin holes.

I guess what I'm saying is I try to leave the "block" as long as I can. That way I have something for the vice to grip and hold "straight and square". Once I have the RR pipes in and pinned I will inlet the TG....the start the "final" shaping.  FWIW


And....PS: I don't think a pistol is any easier than a full stock rifle. Dimensions, inletting and attention to details is just as demanding as that of a rifle. At least that's been my experience.

And it's true that Bob Roller does not have anywhere near "feeble". I'm sure he's forgotten more about gun building than I'll ever know.....but what he contributes now is always valid and helpful.

[Daryl]

This one was quite easy for me. Taylor built it and all I did was to sand and finish it.

[Steeltrap]

^^^^----Very nice pistol.....even tho you cheated a little.----^^^^

[Bob Roller]

Your mind doesn't seem so feeble to me Bob!

If I go to the grocery store after more than one item I need a list.Short term memory is kaput but I can still tell you my phone number in Chicago in 1944,AR4818.I have built maybe 14 rifles....maybe but it is not my best skill set.Small mechanisms became a specialty to me and in 1987 I made my first English styled "4 pin" lock.PIN is the British term for small screws like the #4's they used and I did as well on all my locks.I used a 4x40 and the Brits used a different #4 thread.R.E.Davis bought that #1 "4 pin" and I think I have made over 40 more,some for Don Brown and Rod England.The last 3 went to Sweden in Don Brown kits after his widow asked me to help her by making them so she would not have to refund the money back to the Swedes.The was a "3"pin version I used in Schuetzen locks and nearly all went to the now deceased Helmut Mohr.The last J&S Hawken lock I made had this fancy mechanism and It was in a plate marked J&S Hawken and the only external difference was a screw low in the plate.
Bob Roller

[Bob Gerard]

I was referring to the thickness of the wood below the ramrod hole. Often times there is a whole lot of wood on these precarved stocks. On the ones I did, I fit the rear entry pipe in (which determined how much wood needed to come off) and then worked the wood back towards the trigger area. Then inlet the forward trigger guard foot.
That’s just a way I do it fwiw.

[Steeltrap]

Bob,

Thanks for the clarification. I started this pistol from a block of wood. The pic you see has a lot of excess under the RR channel. I cut\drilled the RR channel and hole. Just yesterday I removed the excess RR channel wood to get that depth down to 1/8" and began to inlet the RR pipes.

My web thickness is just a tad over 1/8" so my entry pipe should align properly.

[Bob Gerard]

Oh yes I forgot that it was a block of wood (I’ve been following your build).
One thing I would suggest is to look at your lock panels- and find Smart Dog’s (Dave Person) tutorials on them.

[Bigmon]

I guess the point I was making is that, especially in a preshaped kit, it is hard to hold the stock in a vice without marring or damaging the wood.  Also, hard to drill all the bolt and pin holes, etc without the benifit of a square stock, as before shaping.
As I said, and as you seem to be doing, the more wood remaining until final shaping the better.  For square work as well as holding in a vice .
Thanks for all the input, and thanks for your knowledge Bob.
Her is the kit pistol I just finished.  If it would warm up a little I'd like to try it out on a deer.

[Steeltrap]

BigMon....I like the pistol. Flows very nice!!

Bob, thanks for the input. I read https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=73260.msg730386#msg730386 Smart Dog's post to one of your pistol builds.

In looking at it, I think it may follow the adage of ..."if you think you took off enough wood, take off some more". I thought my side panels were thin and flowing as is, but in comparison I can see where a bit more "skinny" would only help.

Thanks for the reference.

Edit: My side panel as well. I did the "match the lock panel" thing and can see where it would be much better flowing to the back of the breech.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I guess the point I was making is that, especially in a preshaped kit, it is hard to hold the stock in a vice without marring or damaging the wood.  Also, hard to drill all the bolt and pin holes, etc without the benifit of a square stock, as before shaping.
As I said, and as you seem to be doing, the more wood remaining until final shaping the better.  For square work as well as holding in a vice .
Thanks for all the input, and thanks for your knowledge Bob.
Her is the kit pistol I just finished.  If it would warm up a little I'd like to try it out on a deer.

Bigmon who made the kit? You did a nice job on it.

[Bigmon]

That kit came from Clay Smith about two years or so ago.  I just got to itlate this summer.
I can't take any credit for the shape or "flow". It was pretty much alreadt shaped. I took some wood off, but not alot.
It was top quality components I guess, Rice Barrel and Small Siler Lock.  It shoots great.
But there was alot of work involved in other ways.
PM me if ya want to know.
Regards to all