Putting a bayonet on a 1750s New England fowler?

[Tumbledown]

I know many fowlers were adapted to military service during the Revolutionary War by cutting back the stock and adding a bayonet lug. Can anyone say for certain if this was done for the F&I War?

I'm building a New England .62 smoothbore, the barrel is 3" longer than my stock. If the above is a hard NO, then I might just cut the barrel back to match the stock length.

[rich pierce]

I cannot answer that but there are a number of New England fowlers with distinctive long nose caps that are attached directly to the barrel with no wood underneath. Club butt fowler CB-6 in Grinslade’s book on colonial fowlers is one. I made a more petite version as a turkey gun using this style of nosecap.




upload images

[Adrie luke]

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2004-B89-Eighteenth-Century-American-Fowlers-The-.pdf

[B.Habermehl]

There’s a original JP Beck that has a removable nose cap section. With a bayonet lug underneath. Presumably for militia use circa 1812. .62 cal. There are  fine iron pins that hold the nose cap in alignment and a cross pin holds it in place. IF I remember correctly the lug was drilled for the pin. I was fortunate enough to be allowed to closely examine this gun. Big and kool!! BJH

[smart dog]

Hi,
It can be done but you have several things to consider.  First, can you get or make a bayonet that will fit your barrel diameter at the muzzle?  Most 20 gauge barrels are going to be pretty small in diameter compared with muskets from the time.  The Rifle Shoppe is your only real source for a variety of bayonets so probably want to look at some of their carbine sized bayonets. Even then, you may find you have to cut off the blade and bend and weld it to socket you make specifically for your barrel from a tube of steel.  I've done this to make a simple colonial bayonet.
 




Next you have to think about how it fits.  The socket of a A properly fitted bayonet will be at least flush with the end of the barrel when installed or, better, have some barrel protruding from the end.  That helps assure the socket fits snug. 




The back end of the socket should clear the end of the stock.  Do not allow the socket to butt against the wood, which will assure it eventually cracks. The "Z" slot should taper slightly at the end so it snugs down on the bayonet lug (front sight).  A properly fitted bayonet does not rattle when installed and requires you to smack the bend upward with your hand to get it to release.  Next, you have to consider the barrel lug for the bayonet.  Your fowler may have a front sight so you probably want the bayonet lug located on the bottom of the barrel.  Don't just solder the lug on the barrel.  Instead make a lug with a tiny dovetailed base and cut a very shallow dovetailed slot in the barrel to receive it. Then solder it in place.






Good luck.

dave

[bob in the woods]

There are a few examples of New England fowling guns adapted for a bayonet.Grinslade's book is a really good source and worth getting. As mentioned, a 20 bore may be problematic re finding a suitable bayonet.  I built this example based on one in the book.  It is a 10 bore

[Tumbledown]

Thank you, Dave. I've read much of your posts regarding how to mount bayonets and lugs. As for off-tge-shelf, there may be one "cheat," and that's to use a M1855/70 Springfield bayonet without the locking ring. The inside diameter is almost perfect.

Bob- I have Grinslade's book. There's some nice examples, but we don't know when the bayonets were added. F&I? Revolutionary War?

[rich pierce]

Thank you, Dave. I've read much of your posts regarding how to mount bayonets and lugs. As for off-tge-shelf, there may be one "cheat," and that's to use a M1855/70 Springfield bayonet without the locking ring. The inside diameter is almost perfect.

Bob- I have Grinslade's book. There's some nice examples, but we don't know when the bayonets were added. F&I? Revolutionary War?

In some cases the total number of original guns of a specific type and age are not sufficient to answer our questions. In Grinslade’s book maybe 10-20% of the guns are early enough to have been used in the F&I War. It’s a small sampling and we often don’t know which guns were strictly civilian and which were used in militia duty. It’s a good question but we won’t find a definitive answer. “Could be” and “seems logical that some were” might be as close as we can get. Many interested in historical accuracy look for that one original that fits their situation. If it was me I’d just cut the barrel off.

[T.C.Albert]

Is a nice turned plug bayonet an option?
TCA

[Tumbledown]

Rich, that's exactly my question. Those older fowlers with lugs in his book- when were they modified?

[rich pierce]

Rich, that's exactly my question. Those older fowlers with lugs in his book- when were they modified?

Unknowable!

[Daryl]

Is a nice turned plug bayonet an option?
TCA

Kinda like this one, but skinnier?

[smart dog]

Hi,
Rich is of course correct about not knowing for sure when a fowler was fitted with a bayonet.  However, we can consider the circumstances under which that conversion was more likely.  During the F&I war, Americans fought as British citizens and British troops albeit provincial ones.  Certainly some likely volunteered and brought whatever gun they owned.  However, most Americans fought as officially sanctioned provincial troops and were issued muskets from British and Colonial stores.  They were usually given the old stuff and imported Dutch arms but all would be military guns supplied through ordnance or from commercial contractors such as Richard Wilson and designed to carry a socket bayonet.  Moreover, although citizen militia and "trained bands" were active in America since the early 1600s, the British government frowned on them until passage of the 1757 Militia Act.  It was that legislation that prompted British ordnance to create the pattern 1757 musket for marines and militia.  There probably was no compelling need to convert many civilian guns to take bayonets. 

Now consider the American Revolution.  Americans fought not as British soldiers equipped by the British government.  They had to scrounge up whatever they could and muskets with bayonets were available in limited numbers during the first 2 years of the war. Until we received regular shipments of guns from France and the Dutch, there was a real shortage of muskets. Hence, the "Committee of Safety" muskets and other gun making initiatives.  In addition, many civilian guns may have been altered to take bayonets. Consequently, I suggest any conversion of a fowler to take a bayonet was most likely done during the first 2 or 3 years of the American war.  It may also have been done to qualify a gun for militia service in the years just prior to the Revolution as relations between Americans and the British government became more hostile and communities armed up, particularly in New England.

Daryl, the pattern 1730 King's pattern musket you show was never meant to carry a plug bayonet.  It had a socket bayonet, which is why the stock is cut back.  Plug bayonets were long gone when that musket was issued.

dave       

[Tumbledown]

Again, thank you, Dave. Thank you for taking the time to offer your insight and knowledge. That's all I was looking for- sound evidence or arguments either way.