Author Topic: left side carry of pouch and horn  (Read 22036 times)

Offline AndyThomas

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left side carry of pouch and horn
« on: January 13, 2010, 06:19:53 PM »
In his book, Sketches of Hunting Pouches………of Southern Appalachia, Jim Webb claims that, “Most old pouches were made to be carried on the left side even though most users were right handed.” He’s speaking, of course, only of shot pouches found in southern Appalachia, not other localities. Of the eight original pouches illustrated, which have horns attached, six are for left side carry. He speculates that these pouches are 19th, even 20th, century items, but that they may be copied after older pouches.

To further make his point, he excerpts a story from Brickley’s History of Tazewell County (which is in Virginia, northwest of Bristol), in which Henry Harman and his two sons have a fight with some Indians in the fall of 1784. In the piece, Brickley states,”The Harmans, to a man, wore their bullet pouches on the left side.…..”. This history was published in 1852.

On page 74 of The Frontier Rifleman, by Richard B. LaCrosse, Jr, there’s an excerpt titled, Anonymous Description of a Party of Long Hunters, 1773, which says in part, “On his left side, he carried his hunting knife, a full powder horn, a leather pouch of homemade bullets ……”. Unfortunately, LaCrosse doesn’t say where the excerpt came from.

As a righty, I find loading with the horn on the left much easier. Since the patches are kept, according to Isaac Weld, “…in a little box at the but-end of the gun…”(LaCrosse 79), then I suppose all I need to fish out of the pouch when loading are bullets. Surely, I could find one with my left hand without too much trouble.

Perhaps left side carry was a Rifle Culture characteristic.

Andy
formerly the "barefoot gunsmith of Martin's Station" (now retired!)

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Offline B.Barker

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 08:28:42 PM »
I'm left handed and find that wearing my pouch and horn on the left caused problems. Mostly I would bang my rifle butt on the horn and make a loud clunk at the wrong time when hunting. So I have switched my side to right carry.

Offline K. Moyer

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 08:40:44 PM »
I am left handed as well and carry my bag and horn on my right side. I seem to bang the butt of my rifle off my powder horn when carried on my left side.
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eagle24

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 08:42:56 PM »
With a longrifle I find it more comfortable to carry my rifle in my left hand most of the time (I'm right handed).  I also feel more comfortable with the pouch and horn on the right.  Usually, I'm carrying the rifle with my left hand just behind the sights which is a slight muzzle down balance with my rifle.  With a modern cartridge rifle or shotgun, I would be carrying it in my right hand with my hand in position to shoot and many times the rifle cradled across my left arm.  This just doesn't seem to work well with a muzzle heavy longrifle for me.  Course, I'm new to this and still learning.

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 09:13:49 PM »
For what its worth. I get very few requests for making up a left hand carry bag/ horn set...and if Im making a set on spec not consignment, I generally set it up for right side carrying...

That said, I personally carry the bag on the left though I shoot right.
TCA
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Offline Beaverman

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 09:56:35 PM »
For what its worth. I get very few requests for making up a left hand carry bag/ horn set...and if Im making a set on spec not consignment, I generally set it up for right side carrying...

That said, I personally carry the bag on the left though I shoot right.
TCA

Sane here TC, of course I'm a contractor and have worn a tool belt all my life, the right hand has the tool in it and the left is always reaching for the fastener of choice, just used to working that way, but... I do wear the horn on the right side

BrownBear

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 10:22:40 PM »
I'm a lefty, and for years I carried the bag on my right.  Even today, it feels more "natural" there.  In real life I'm a busy pro photographer, and the camera bag is always on my right if I'm not wearing a vest.

But over the last couple of years I've transitioned my shooting bag to the left. Why?  Because I'm holding the gun in my right hand for most operations, and it is sometimes just darned awkward to have the gun in your hand and need to fish for something in the bag.  And I do just about everything left handed.  The biggest problem in changing over was getting used to the bag being over there, especially when walking and crawling in rough country.  But now that I'm used to carrying it there, it sure has simplified reloading and caring for my guns in the field.

Offline RonT

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 10:33:58 PM »
Here's another right hander, left side carry.
I hold my:
-measure in my right hand, pour out of my horn with my left.
-short starter in my left, hit with right. 
-ball pouch in left, retrieved ball in right.
-patch roll in left, ball centered and patch cut with knife in right.
-canvas gamebag on my right side.
-canteen on left hip, bayonet on right...ooops, sorry...flashback. :)
R
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Top Jaw

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 06:41:18 AM »
Like many things this may have been driven by regional, family, or period tradition.  Perhaps by military training, or simply by individual preference.  Madison Grants book does show an overwhelming preference for right side carry in the photos of about 100 original bags, where the horn is attached to the bag.  (Some of these horns could have been re-attached to the bags later and so this may not be a completely accurate representation. Also, nearly all of them are probably 19th century bags).  But even allowing for that, there would still appear to be an inordinate number carried on the right.  Several period paintings and old photographs also seem to favor a right-side carry. 

Lastly, I think it is much easier for me to prime from the horn when carrying it on the right side, or to retrieve a percussion cap and place it on the nipple when the bag is on the right.

Brian 

Offline RobertS

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 06:59:16 AM »
Check out this Frederic Remington drawing: http://www.frederic-remington.org/A-Native-Sportsman.html
I have read that he was a stickler for accuracy in his paintings, though of course he may have picked the wrong guy to be his model.  Interesting how his bag and horn are carried, though, and it makes me wonder. Below his signature, it shows "West Virginia" as the location, I assume.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 07:01:22 AM by RobertS »

Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 07:21:36 AM »
Check out this Frederic Remington drawing: http://www.frederic-remington.org/A-Native-Sportsman.html
I have read that he was a stickler for accuracy in his paintings, though of course he may have picked the wrong guy to be his model.  Interesting how his bag and horn are carried, though, and it makes me wonder. Below his signature, it shows "West Virginia" as the location, I assume.

I have seen Hershel House load from the pouch several times with the pouch and horn worn exactly like in this Remington drawing.  Maybe it is a southern thing?

Randy Hedden
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Offline RonT

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 05:28:29 PM »
mmmmm...Possum...it's what's fer dinner.  Going to have to try that elevated  position for curiosity sake.   Not sure that my arms can make the bends that appear to be needed.
R
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Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 09:41:34 PM »
Bag is still set up for right hand carry I think?
Maybe not...that image could have been mirrored opposite from
the original? ;D
TCA
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BrownBear

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 11:29:51 PM »
...that image could have been mirrored opposite from
the original? ;D
TCA


That happens more often than we realize.  I'm a photographer by trade, and I'm amazed how often my stuff is printed backwards to fit the layout better.  

I'm not saying that it's period art, but I've got a paperback copy of Journal of a Trapper beside me right now, and the "trapper" painting on the cover (by Lad Odell) is holding a "lefty" capper.  I'd bet you dollars to donuts that it's printed backwards.  BTW- As printed, it's showing the bag and horn on the left and knife on the right.  The rifle looks like some kind of a plains rifle with a great big patchbox and full length stock.  Dandy painting till you start studying the details and asking yourself questions.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 11:30:22 PM by BrownBear »

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 11:41:43 PM »
National Geographic did a spread on Daniel Boone years ago...had an nice engraved powder horn on display at the Missouri home where he died...
(I assume they attributed the horn to him? ) Anyhow, all the engraving is backwards there too I believe...in a nice glossy full color Nat. Geo. photo...
TCA
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Contact at : huntingpouch@gmail.com

Jefferson58

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2010, 12:42:58 AM »
mmmmm...Possum...it's what's fer dinner. 

I know it is a little off the topic, but that comment got me thinking about the old guys who used to work in our orchard about 35 to 40 years back. They would go out at lunchtime, shoot a groundhog and bring it back to the packing shed. It would sit in a basket for 4 or 5 hours in the mid 90's heat before they took it home to skin it. These old boys were always healthy, (when they were sober) so it must have been okay. I never tried any, thank you very much.

Hmmmm, groundhog too.......

The right side carry / left side carry thing has puzzled me as well. I have Jim Webb's book, and noted his observations about the carry thing right off. I am not sure what to think other than it was personal preference. I do know that I have only had one request for a left side carry pouch, so who knows?

Jeff

Online Pete G.

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2010, 08:38:16 PM »
I find that I am more comfortable with horn and bag on the left for shooting right handed. Being right handed I seem to handle the measure better with that hand. When loading from the bag I usually use a bullet board. The only problem I have is when trying to prime a right handed rifle with the horn on the left. Tap, Tap, Tap....nothing....Tap, Tap, Tap....pan overflowing. Those little priming flasks solve that, but it's one more thing to have to keep up with.

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2010, 07:59:49 AM »
Left hip! I'm a right handed shooter, but write left handed!  I shoot a pistol right handed too.  I always carry my horn and bag on the left side.  Carried my pistol ammo on the left side when I was in the service too.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline James Rogers

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2010, 08:16:47 AM »
Right handed and have always worn my pouch on the right. I use my right hand to do the gettin and doin while the left is doing the most of the holdin.
I developed this manner just by acquiring it on my own as what was comfortable and it was probably the first way my mind thought to do it.  Perhaps I would have developed another comfortable way if I had thought of it first. That said, my son adopted this same method due to watching me and the way I did it from the time he was very young. I believe this is an example of an explanation as to why certain areas lean to a certain way of doing things. Just like everything else, it's breeding and environment.

Slightly related. Has anyone ever noticed the amount of 18th century paintings showing men carrying their shoulder pouches with the buckle across the chest instead of on their back?

BrownBear

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2010, 05:41:39 PM »
Right handed and have always worn my pouch on the right. I use my right hand to do the gettin and doin while the left is doing the most of the holdin.


That's why I "evolved" into left side carry as a lefty.  Just way too much shuffling, but with the left carry all the gettin and doin, as you say, was with the left hand while the right was gun rack.

I've signed back on for one observation about the switch: 

I've developed the lifelong habit of carrying a gun in my right hand, and the bag on the right was natural as a means of controlling it with a squeeze of the right elbow.  Having the gun in the right hand and squeezing with the left has been problematic a few times in the brush.  I still can't bring myself to carry the gun in my left, but something has got to happen.  It's downright awkward to try fending off brush with both hands occupied.

Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2010, 06:47:15 PM »
Pouch on right- horn on left. I find it easier to use the powder measure from pouch with the right hand and pour from horn with my left. Also, crossed straps hold the hunting frock cape down when I wear one.

Offline smshea

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2010, 08:09:01 PM »
I am right handed and shoot right handed as well. I carry on the right side fairly high on the hip. Never had any trouble loading but I do have to be conscious of my horn when raising the gun to shoot or I get the "Clunk" but I think my horn is just a bit too large for where I like my bag to hang. Anyway as much as I love my horn I plan to switch to a smaller one to correct that situation.....someday.               

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2010, 09:04:33 PM »
That is an especially nice rig Scott.
Although it's interesting to see how others set up there stuff, it's usefulness ends there.  Everyone has to arrange their stuff to suit themselves.  We have issues of which hand are you, which eye is dominant, etc. and everyone has combinations that differ.  You're system will likely evolve as time and experience increase too.  I've experimented with many different set-ups, sometimes out of interest, sometimes out of necessity.  Like the left hand horn carry.  At Dixon's in '07 I picked up a horn from Lee Larkin's wonderful stinky pile, and Tom Elgan picked up its mate.  I thought I had the right hand horn, but I was mistaken, and a few seconds too late.  It was the beginning of a nice relationship between us too new horners, and I had to give the opposite side carry a try.  I don't mind it at all.  I do all my shooting from the bag, so I can adapt quickly.  I use both hands to do the loading and hold the rifle between my legs, heel down, toe in, and muzzle at chest height.  I'm sure I could do it blindfolded.  I like the buckle on my back so there's room on the front of the strap for my primer, vent prick,  and short starter.
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Offline smshea

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2010, 11:55:56 PM »
Thank you for the complement!
 
I only post the picture because I think the horn even looks to large with that bag. The set up is great... I just need to go back to a smaller horn. One of those situations where the horn looks great with the bag but just doesn't work unless you move everything else. I've tried to raise and lower the horn or the bag but then everything seems out of sinc.
 Of course the only time it hits the gun and makes noise is when a deer is right in front of me.
   

Offline acorn20

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Re: left side carry of pouch and horn
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2010, 11:29:56 PM »
Scott,

I agree...that's one fine looking outfit.  For hunting, I can see where you might want a smaller horn but for shooting competition, well, I think you have cat's meow.  Guess you wouldn't share the specifics (width, length, etc.) of your bag and horn on another thread?  Thanks.
Dan Akers