Shop is humming with British guns

[smart dog]

Hi,
We are very busy.  I have not posted much because I have so much work to get done before "Battle Road" in April.  Maria was here over her Christmas break and worked on her British officer's fusil.  We cast and then she began sculpting the sideplate and wrist plate.









I have 2 pattern 1742 Brown Besses to make but am also working on 2 English sporting rifles.  The first is full stocked and inspired by the two famous Twigg rifles shown in Neal's Great British Gunmakers: 1740-1790.  I am not copying the rifles because the owner wants some changes.  He does not like single set triggers, which were used on the originals but want double sets. I have never seen double set triggers on English flintlock rifles from the 18th and early 19th centuries.  That is OK and I will tuck the set trigger in close to the rear of the trigger guard bow so it won't be obvious.  Unfortunately, our choices for steel hardware for British guns is dismal.  So many options disappeared during the last decade.  Anyway, I made do with a trigger guard from TOW.  The bow of the guard is much too big and it was probably copied from a double barreled gun.  If you use it as is it looks so awkward.  So I cut off the forward curl of the bow and made the bow smaller.  No set triggers you can buy look anything like triggers used on British sporting guns but the best option for double sets are triggers for Hawken rifles. They have to be modified a lot but they can work although the double triggers probably are a fantasy for British sporting guns. Anyway, I reshaped the trigger guard, welded in a threaded stud and drastically reshaped a Hwken trigger set from L&R.

 









It will work out pretty well.  The Davis Twigg lock needed a lot of work.  I changed the geometry of the lock and replaced all  of the tiny screws they use to hold the internals.  On this rifle, the lock is secured by one bolt with the nose of the lock held in place by a hook and screw stud.  Here is the hook I made.  It is threaded through the lock plate but I will eventually countersink the outside of the hole, cut off the threads leaving about 1/8 inch of excess above the lock plate.  Then I will melt that excess with a welding torch to fill the countersink, permanently attaching the lug.  When file flush, the hole will disappear.








More to come.

dave

[ScottH]

Dave,
 Following along.
I have been considering a English Sporting rifle project. I have a nice piece of California grown English type walnut that will make a half stock. My concern is the breech plug and the appropriate tang to go with it. As you say there aren't may options for these parts now.

[smart dog]

Hi Scott,
Use the fitted breech plug with your barrel, cut off the tang, and file the bolster into the hook.  Then get Ketland, Griffin, or Twigg standing breeches from the Rifle Shoppe.  They usually a bunch of at least one of those styles in stock.  Rice is also making a standing breech.  However, the current one has such a short tang that it is difficult to fit right.  Jason told me at Kempton that he was going to start making them longer and with excess metal so folks could shape them as they desire.

dave

[Justin Urbantas]

I'm following along too. I love the English guns. I might even end up finishing mine one of these days.

[Pukka Bundook]

I too am following along Dave!
It comes over a bit knarly when someone wants a British rifle with parts that were almost never put on a British rifle,  so I can feel for you!
Still, I know you will do a Fantastic job of it!

[ScottNE]

Following along as well, I've really come to appreciate British guns in the past couple of years.

As an aside, I worked seasonally at Minute Man NHP in Concord for years as a teenager into early 20s, the Battle Road event was always a fun time.

[flatsguide]

It’s nice seeing this level of work.
Cheers Richard

[smylee grouch]

The viewing gallery is growing Dave. I think because people like the British style guns AND the level of workmanship displayed by you and Maria. Thanks for documenting  your efforts.

[Craig Wilcox]

Dave, like Smylee, I love to see your workmanship.  Sometimes it even inspires me to keep trucking onward.  Always, it sets a high standard.

Knowing next to nothing about English (British?) flintlocks, this is also a large learning opportunity.

I do have one English firearm, but it's percussion, a double 15-bore from about 1850.  Love the intricate work on it.

[smart dog]

Hi Folks,
Thanks for looking and commenting.  Maria is back at school but I am busy as I can handle.  Here is where I am on my latest English sporting rifle.  As I wrote previously, I am not copying the Twigg rifles that inspire this project but am trying to keep to a plausible example made in England during the late 1770s and early 1780s.  The rifle is not of the generation including the Mantons, Richards, Langs, Purdey's etc.  It is of the last generation of English makers who never experienced the percussion era.  However, it is supposed to represent a fine English gun and that means very high quality. I shaped the stock and installed most of the components, all of which required extensive modifications.  The plain black walnut is very light colored and I may use ferric nitrate on it to darken it. 
 


Inletting on English guns should look like the metal grew into the wood.







There will be a highly figure walnut patch box lid that will complement the butt stock.  The cheek piece will also add a nice touch to the butt stock.


Builders often fret about barrel keys.  On this gun there will be no escutcheon plates so the fit of the keys must be perfect.



I have a question to put to all of you.  There will be a simple oval wrist plate but I am considering checkering the wrist.  The barrel tang will have a rolling shell carved its end.  The original Twigg rifles have no checkering but I like the style, appropriate for the time, that I did on this rifle.





It is appropriate for the time period.  Should I do it or leave the wrist plain?

dave

[Jim Kibler]

I say, yes to the checkering.  I think it looks really nice.  Kudos to you for working hard and keeping your shop humming.  I remember this sort of work and it certainly takes discipline.  Beautiful work. 

[flatsguide]

I say yes to checkering. I hope I have another rifle in me. I have a lovely blank of Turkish walnut long enough to make a full length stock for an English Sporting Rifle that I will checker.
That’s a nice looking rifle Dave.
Cheers Richard

[Bob Roller]

I say yes to checkering. I hope I have another rifle in me. I have a lovely blank of Turkish walnut long enough to make a full length stock for an English Sporting Rifle that I will checker.
That’s a nice looking rifle Dave.
Cheers Richard

That level of quality in wood lends itself to fine checkering.I made a half stock New York style cap lock out of a walnut blank that was from Russia and checkered the grip portion and it turned out well.Silver butt plate and trigger guard from a badly damaged antique that was from an antique shop (maybe).After locating where the barrel wedge would be I milled it with a 1/4" end mill and then a 3/8"dovetail mill.
I have a flat block of ground steel that's wjde enough for a variety of jobs and laid the barrel on the top flat and used a Vernier height gauge to find the true depth of the dovetail cut and the put the barrel back in the stock after marking its location and then using the height gauge I marked the stock and slotted it for the single wedge.The slotting was done AFTER the forearm was shaped and ready for finish.I sold that rifle shortly after it was done and it was 45 caliber 34"long and 1 inch across the flats.The lock was a common style with drum and nipple I made for it and a single set trigger I made.The trigger guard was too small for a properly made double set type.
Bob Roller

[Lone Wolf]

I'll take the other side.  The checkering above is absolutely fantastic.  However, to my eye checkering can sometimes push a gun over the edge of too much decoration or appear too busy.  I think checkering looks better on guns that aren't as ornate where it serves perhaps a more functional purpose and can compensate for minimal carving.  Just my humble left-brained opinion.

[Pukka Bundook]

I will also say checker the wrist Dave.

It was in use in this period, and although I understand where Lone Wolf is coming from, checkering was there for a reason, as it is now.
It needs to be of the skip style like you did in the lovely example you posted above in my mind.
This is both practical and beautiful.  (And a Lot of work!)

[smylee grouch]

Personally I would say go for it.  The style of checkering  of that time period ( flat top center dot ) I think goes well with your carving.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Crunch time.  Battle road is coming up and we are thick fixing repro Brown Besses and engraving regimental markings.  We also have several projects of our own nearing completion.  Maria is with me home for spring break and working on her officer's fusil.  I am finishing up a late 1770s English sporting rifle.   The repros can be rabbit holes that suck you down into the land of the Cheshire cat and the Mad Hatter.  All of the repro locks are bad and they all need work.  When we are done, the owners are amazed.  The locks work great, their trigger pull is no longer 15 lbs, and if we forge them a new mainspring, they cannot believe how smooth and efficient it feels, and how well their locks work. Most just don't know any better.

Here is Maria's officer's fusil as she creates the outline of the carving before she whiskers the stock.

   






Now it is ready for whiskering with black water based dye.








It is going to be spectacular.  The wrist will be checkered in the proper manor.  Here is my English sporting rifle during the finishing stage.  I am still applying finish to fill the grain.  It is inspired by work by John Twigg but is my own creation.  The checkering diamonds are divided into quarters, each of which will have a dot.









The owner wanted double set triggers, something not seen on 18th century English sporting rifles.  So I added them but the only ones that worked were L&R Hawken triggers.  I cut the trigger plate to size and filed its shape.  I reshaped the triggers and got rid of the anemic wire spring for the front trigger, which was mounted in a very crude way. I used flat spring steel from Bob Roller and shaped a new spring that is 100% better and is anchored by the screw holding the main spring.
 







I also got rid of the fragile set screw and replaced it with one far more robust. I hate it when the trigger slots in the trigger plate are too wide so the triggers wobble side to side.  I am going to make bushings for both triggers that eliminate that slop.  These triggers will feel smooth and precise as a watch when I am done.

More to come.

dave

[smylee grouch]

I and im sure other here enjoy viewing the work both of you are producing. Thank you for letting us ride along. 

[Jakob]

I hate it when the trigger slots in the trigger plate are too wide so the triggers wobble side to side.  I am going to make bushings for both triggers that eliminate that slop. 

I initially got a double set trigger from LR for my jaeger and I was very disappointed with how sloppy they were. They got replaced with a much better set from Ron Scott.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I got Maria started on her first checkering job.  She never did this before.  We use a 1770s design seen on some fine sporting guns by Durs Egg.  It is not the rather unsophisticated early large checkering typically used during this period. It has each large diamond divided into quadrants by finer lines.  Each quadrant will have a dot.  My previous rifled officer's fusil had 1020 dots.  Maria's will have about that many as well.  I have mylar diamond templates with 45, 60, and 90 degree main angles.  We used the 60 degree template to lay out the design.  First we draw a center line on top of the wrist.  Then we measure down from that line to the point where we want the "V" surrounding the tails of the lock and side plate panels. It is important that both sides of the wrist are close to symmetrical otherwise the checkering gets funky fast.  We used a template to check both sides when final shaping the wrist. The mylar template helps establish the angles when oriented with the point at those "Vs" at the ends of the lock and side plate panels. Using 1/4" tape, we establish the main lines on either side of the stock so they match at the ends on both sides and cross at the center line on the top.  Then we shallowly cut those main lines with a 60 degree single line checkering tool.  Once those lines were cut, Maria used a 1/16" 60 degree skip line tool to cut lines parallel to the main line on both sides. That cuts lines 1/8" apart.

     






Two sets of parallel lines with the skip line tool  create the 1/4" wide major diamonds forming the pattern.  So the next step after cutting the fine lines is to deepen the main lines to form the large diamonds.  This she does first by cutting them deeper with a single line 60 degree cutter.


Then she uses my home made checkering saw that cuts deep grooves.



Finally she uses a checkering file to widen those main lines.  She got the hang of it very quickly and has lost a lot of her anxiety about doing it.  It still is a bit scary.  Normally, checkering is done after several coats of finish are on the gun hardening the wood. However, this early checkering is best done before applying finish because the key tool is a little saw and none of the diamonds are very fragile.  That also allows you the chance to fix mistakes before finish is applied. 

More to come.

dave

[smallpatch]

David,
You Sir are an evil taskmaster.
You know about my first (and only) checkering project. That is probably the most scared I’ve ever been working on a gun.
BUT, that young lady is getting the training I wish I’d had 30 years ago.
Nicely done….. both of you!

[Robby]

I've never done enough checkering to feel at ease with it and can feel myself tensing up just looking at the pictures. Nicely done Maria, and you as well Dave.
Robby

[Pukka Bundook]

Dave,
After one particularly traumatic checkering job, I still get the shakes when I see it being done!
Yet here is Maria, doing  a grand job, and I don't see her hands shaking at all in the photos.
What a start she is getting with you as her taskmaster!

The sporting gun looks Lovely! Stock shape just begs to be handled!!

Beautiful work Dave!!

[Bob Roller]

Out standing work and very capable young woman.My best wood working can be considered as semi skilled at best.Maria is a blessing to you and the rest of us.I also have a lovely young woman in my life for the last 7 years.Her name is Amanda and I plugged up the holes in her degree in American History as it concerns WW2. I asked her if she ever met any of the veterans of that war and she said,"Very Few".
My lock and trigger making for the German Schuetzenbund fascinated her and she was surprised that some of them were WW2 veterans and one flew for the Luftwaffe and another was a mechanic for the heavy Tiger series of tanks.We stay in contact and like Maria,she is a joy and delight in the life of a man nearly 89.When I told her my wife Brenda had a lot of joint pain she offered to send over night several containers of Hempvana and I told her we have it in the house.She IS from a fine family.
Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi,
Today was good but also frustrating.  For me I cleaned up a pattern 1742 Bess lock made from TRS parts that was butchered by the maker.  I hate these jobs but I also want to help folks who are committed reenactors that just don't know any better.  I no longer accept work on India-made reproductions and am getting to the point where I won't work on Miroku or Pedersoli reproductions unless it is to completely rebuild the entire gun with a new stock, trigger guard, and butt plate.  I also hate to fix muskets with TRS parts made by makers who just don't know what they are doing. That is why Maria and I are writing a book about making all patterns of the King's musket.  We intend to educate folks how to build these guns correctly in every detail.

On the plus and good side, Maria finished the layout of the checkering on her officer's fusil. She did a terrific job and I am very proud of her.  Here is the gun.

   






This is the kind of work that even our best contemporary gun makers are reluctant to do. We will eventually deepen all the lines.  Maria had to go back to school today so the work stops at this point. One of the things that caused Maria anxiety was how the lines curved differently as she worked back toward the comb.  This is normal and is caused by changes in the cross sectional profile of the stock.  Most folks don't realize that when they walk a straight compass bearing they are actually walking in a curve dictated by the curvature of the Earth.  It is the same on a stock.  The round cross section of the stock determines how the "straight" checkering line actually looks.  If you were a tiny person walking the checkered line, you would think you were walking in a straight line. But in 3D you are not.  On more modern guns, the sides of the stock are flatter and even late flint English guns, the cross section of the stocks was a vertical oval so the sides did not curve a lot.  As a result, checkering lines retain the apparent angles much better and look straighter.  Not so on 18th century British guns in which the wrist was more spherical  near the breech and becoming more fat oval at the comb.  On those guns, the angle of the rear border line looks to be not parallel with the front borders.  That is just the way they are.

dave