Author Topic: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video  (Read 7844 times)

Offline Jim Kibler

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Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« on: January 27, 2025, 10:47:20 PM »

Offline AZshot

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2025, 11:34:59 PM »
Just watched, good job designing what you think it should be. 
I'm liking what you are doing to keep it light. The 31-32" barrel, hollow under rib, and tapered barrel, slightly swamped. The traditional heavy gun was something I was not interested in.  8 1/2 lbs will be good.  I may change my order to a .54 to reduce more.  Maybe a "light Hawken" is an oxymoron, but I don't care. 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2025, 11:43:54 PM by AZshot »

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2025, 11:59:00 PM »
Interesting design - classic style but with enough tweaking to make it stand out from the standard look. :) The style of trigger guard is more to my liking for sure. The Hawkin rifles that I have made for customers had all been with tapered barrels from 32" to 35" in length and calibers from .50, .54 and .58 which were the calibers that were most wanted by my customers. I purchased my barrels from Jerry Cunningham of Orion Barrels to the barrel tapers and lengths of my choice.
I think if I was to purchase one of your Hawken rifles, I would go with the .58 caliber with a fancy maple stock and with a 32"-barrel length just to keep the weight down as I can't maneuver a heavy rifle easily anymore. ;)
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2025, 12:11:55 AM »
This Hawken kit offered in what cal.and what type of rifling , round bottom or square? What grove depth and twist rate?  :-\

Offline Lassiter

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2025, 12:40:10 AM »
I really like it! I especially like the shorter tapered barrel and the lighter weight. Looking forward to when I can get my hands on one!

Offline Jakob

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2025, 12:52:03 AM »
Yeah, this is tempting.

Offline Hawken2012

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2025, 12:53:59 AM »
I will be the first to order one!!! 

Offline axelp

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2025, 01:20:41 AM »
outstanding
Galations 2:20

Offline Dave Patterson

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2025, 03:03:40 AM »
Just watched, good job designing what you think it should be. 
I'm liking what you are doing to keep it light. The 31-32" barrel, hollow under rib, and tapered barrel, slightly swamped. The traditional heavy gun was something I was not interested in.  8 1/2 lbs will be good.  I may change my order to a .54 to reduce more.  Maybe a "light Hawken" is an oxymoron, but I don't care.

All that, but I'm thinking of a .58.  Glad to see this coming... and I'm liking the "... Hawken, the way it should be...".  ;)

Offline David G

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2025, 05:08:07 AM »
That’s gonna be a fantastic gun !

Offline Hawg

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2025, 06:26:20 AM »
It is going to be a good gun and I hope you sell a lot of them but to me it's no more a Hawken than the Italian guns.

Offline Brian Jordan

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2025, 02:47:42 PM »
This is very exciting to see. I would however love to see a flintlock option. I'm personally not interested in percussion.
Elizabeth, PA

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Offline 45-110

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2025, 04:16:38 PM »
It is going to be a good gun and I hope you sell a lot of them but to me it's no more a Hawken than the Italian guns.
Apparently an American made rifle product means nothing to you?

Offline AZshot

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2025, 04:42:31 PM »
...in an easy to make kit that you can pick the wood, then do the finishing?
...in a new, high quality Kibler percussion lock?  I recall seeing lots of posts here asking for Kibler to make one.

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2025, 04:48:33 PM »
Keep in mind the video is a computer generated drawing without fine details the actual gun will likely knock your socks off.
Dan

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Offline JPK

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2025, 05:30:38 PM »
I believe it will be a fine rifle but feel the details are beginning to stray from the goal of building a Hawken. My image of a Hawken is a robust rifle for frontier use does not include the fancy details and delicate design. A simple straight taper to the barrel and lack of adornment could still be made in a stylish rifle of modest weight.
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2025, 05:34:39 PM »
...in an easy to make kit that you can pick the wood, then do the finishing?
...in a new, high quality Kibler percussion lock?  I recall seeing lots of posts here asking for Kibler to make one.

The original Hawken cap locks were barely useable IMHO and I made a few 50 years ago for Tom Dawson who copied the Hawken rifle right down to the mistakes and accidents seen on them.I upgraded them with close tolerances and a two position tumbler with a "fly" to prevent a major malfunction by going from full cocked to "half"cocked.The current lock mechanism he uses is a fine one and all that is needed is a plate and hammer to make a fine cap lock.The "4 pin:English style cap locks I made sold for $300.There were all bench crafted and no CNC. 

Bob Roller
« Last Edit: January 28, 2025, 05:40:56 PM by Bob Roller »

Offline Hawg

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2025, 05:42:34 PM »
Apparently an American made rifle product means nothing to you?

It's not that. Jim's rifles are much better quality than the Italian guns. I love the amount of work he puts into them and the lack of work it takes to finish one out. It does look like something that could have been made in the 1850's but if you're going to call a rifle a Hawken at least stick to the original design. If I didn't already have a Hawken that's closer to the original I'd probably be all over it.

Offline Outlander

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2025, 07:46:30 PM »
I believe it will be a fine rifle but feel the details are beginning to stray from the goal of building a Hawken. My image of a Hawken is a robust rifle for frontier use does not include the fancy details and delicate design. A simple straight taper to the barrel and lack of adornment could still be made in a stylish rifle of modest weight.]


Indeed.  I will be looking for something more authentic , so it might have to come from The Hawken Shop.
I love everything else Jim has come up with.
Also, I don't mind heavy guns, they shoot better for me.

Offline AZshot

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2025, 07:52:08 PM »
Didn't the Hawken's make lighter weight rifles too?  And didn't all gunsmiths in the 1790s-1850s vary what they did on almost every rifle they made?  I know the Appalachian long rifle makers did, even the trigger guards were different on several Gross rifles that I have seen and have.  I'm not going to go look at the weights of all known Hawkens, but I'd say the basic features are Hawken:
Half stocked, with a nose cap
Two barrel keys with escutcheons
Heavy caliber, relatively heavy barrel
Percussion lock
Triggers Double-set
Buckhorn open sights
Patent breech or hooked barrel
Iron furniture, including the mountings

What are you postulating is "not like a Hawken" that is not minutiae, or sample varience between individual Hawkens?  The weight?

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2025, 08:00:46 PM »
Captured barrel keys would be nice.

Bob

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2025, 08:11:41 PM »
Didn't the Hawken's make lighter weight rifles too?  And didn't all gunsmiths in the 1790s-1850s vary what they did on almost every rifle they made?  I know the Appalachian long rifle makers did, even the trigger guards were different on several Gross rifles that I have seen and have.  I'm not going to go look at the weights of all known Hawkens, but I'd say the basic features are Hawken:
Half stocked, with a nose cap
Two barrel keys with escutcheons
Heavy caliber, relatively heavy barrel
Percussion lock
Triggers Double-set
Buckhorn open sights
Patent breech or hooked barrel
Iron furniture, including the mountings

What are you postulating is "not like a Hawken" that is not minutiae, or sample varience between individual Hawkens?  The weight?

They made local squirrel rifles of smaller caliber, often with some brass mounts, usually in half stock, single barrel key.

There was a lot of variety in what they made. Some folks are going to like a particular style of what they made and some prefer another. That’s how people are. I’m a fan of the earliest J&S Hawken percussion rifles associated with the early Rocky Mountain fur trade. Others want a flint Hawken. Some want the later Santa Fe and buffalo guns. Some want a full stock. No single offering can meet everyone’s dream gun. Doesn’t matter who is making it or how well made it is. 
Andover, Vermont

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2025, 08:15:45 PM »
This Hawken kit offered in what cal.and what type of rifling , round bottom or square? What grove depth and twist rate?  :-\

It will be available in .45, .50, .54 and likely .58
Square rifling. 
Not sure of twist at this point.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2025, 08:16:23 PM »
Didn't the Hawken's make lighter weight rifles too?  And didn't all gunsmiths in the 1790s-1850s vary what they did on almost every rifle they made?  I know the Appalachian long rifle makers did, even the trigger guards were different on several Gross rifles that I have seen and have.  I'm not going to go look at the weights of all known Hawkens, but I'd say the basic features are Hawken:
Half stocked, with a nose cap
Two barrel keys with escutcheons
Heavy caliber, relatively heavy barrel
Percussion lock
Triggers Double-set
Buckhorn open sights
Patent breech or hooked barrel
Iron furniture, including the mountings

What are you postulating is "not like a Hawken" that is not minutiae, or sample varience between individual Hawkens?  The weight?

They made local squirrel rifles of smaller caliber, often with some brass mounts, usually in half stock, single barrel key.

There was a lot of variety in what they made. Some folks are going to like a particular style of what they made and some prefer another. That’s how people are. I’m a fan of the earliest J&S Hawken percussion rifles associated with the early Rocky Mountain fur trade. Others want a flint Hawken. Some want the later Santa Fe and buffalo guns. Some want a full stock. No single offering can meet everyone’s dream gun. Doesn’t matter who is making it or how well made it is.

Well said!!!

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2025, 08:17:07 PM »
Captured barrel keys would be nice.

Bob

It will have keys and well probably provide accommodations for them to be captured.