Kibler Hawken Rifle Update Video

[Leatherbark]

Suppose it is renamed the "Westerner" or the "Plains" rifle instead of a "Hawken".  That way the critics cannot say it is not a Hawken since it isn't called a Hawken.  Now it will satisfy everyone because Plains rifles were made forty-eleven ways.  New shooters will see it and say to themselves "That looks like a Hawken" "I want one".  Regular shooters like me will know what it is and what it's for and buy it.  Critics probably won't to buy it anyway if it's called a Hawken. Called by another name they might.

But then again, the name "Hawken" sells!

Bob

[Steeltrap]

Anything but a 1-48 shallow grove rifling.

[foresterdj]

Maybe the top flat should be stamped:

"K. Hawken"

Just to mess with people.

[Jim Kibler]

Maybe the top flat should be stamped:

"K. Hawken"

Just to mess with people.

I like it!

[Daniel Coats]

Shares some similarity with the Kit Carson Hawken. Tapered barrel size and length trigger pull breech size. Jim K have you noticed this?

[Hawg]

Shares some similarity with the Kit Carson Hawken. Tapered barrel size and length trigger pull breech size. Jim K have you noticed this?

I'm not trying to be argumentative but everything I've seen on Carson's rifle says 1 1/8" tapering to 1" and 31 inches long.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I predict that in the future ALL of Jims rifles will become "CLASSICS" and will be adored and sought after by all shooters just like the BOWIE knife, Davy Crockets rifle "Old Betsy" and the Killdeer rifle carried by Natty Bumppo.
Collect all if you dare - pass if you are one of the nay-sayers - it your choice no one is twisting your arm. For me I am a big fan of quality firearms that are in my price range!

[CooleyS]

Keeping an open mindset and it’s growing on me!
-Steve

[Jim Kibler]

Thanks everybody.  I'm a huge fan of Louie Parker's work and his Hawken rifles are really the best I've ever seen and ones I'd be proud to own.  Not many others fall in this category.  I really appreciate his approach and though I might be pushing things a touch further than he did, I've tried to work in the same vein.  Time will tell how well I've done.

[Nameless Hunter]

I guess I'm the lone guy wanting a 34" barrel.  Don't want to be the guy that dropped the candy bar in the pool, but... I already have a 54 cal "Hawken-like" GPR, with a 32" barrel, that shoots really well. Nonetheless, I will be eagerly awaiting what is released. An option for using a peep sight would be nice.

[Jim Kibler]

This will probably have a 32" barrel.  I've heard people talk about this and Great Plains Rifles, Traditions, Uberti etc in the same sentence.  Just know this offering will be many steps above these sorts of rifles.

[Darkhorse]

I watched the video and like the rifle. I like the lightweight models for hunting. 1-48 is fine with me as is the 32" barrel. I agree with Bob Gerard, ditch the patent breech, I've had 2 and that was 2 too many.
Offer a flintlock choice as many of us don't care for percussions.

Even though I like this rifle I won't buy one because you won't offer a left hand version. I had many years in all phases of NC machining with the air force and I just can't see a big expense in fixturing or programming. The mirror image mode in most controls will allow a fairly simple method of
producing LH models. Even so I really admire the precision and accuracy you have attained in your current offerings.

[Martin S.]

I watched the video and like the rifle. I like the lightweight models for hunting. 1-48 is fine with me as is the 32" barrel. I agree with Bob Gerard, ditch the patent breech, I've had 2 and that was 2 too many.
Offer a flintlock choice as many of us don't care for percussions.

Even though I like this rifle I won't buy one because you won't offer a left hand version. I had many years in all phases of NC machining with the air force and I just can't see a big expense in fixturing or programming. The mirror image mode in most controls will allow a fairly simple method of
producing LH models. Even so I really admire the precision and accuracy you have attained in your current offerings.

Just curious, can you tell me why you don't like the patent breech?

Isn't that authentic to the originals?

I'm not a lefty, but my dad was, so I can understand that left handed people would like to see rifles made for them as well.

However, I also understand that Jim has to keep his business profitable, so producing a left handed rifle is up to him.

I love his kits, I have several, and will buy this one.

[Hawg]

Just curious, can you tell me why you don't like the patent breech?
Isn't that authentic to the originals?

Some had it, some didn't. It supposedly improves ignition but I never had an ignition problem without one.

[Leatherbark]

A patent type chambered breech will be okay. It's just that the firing communication hole in the breech needs to be larger than the standard TC Hawken type and polished good to make sure 2f powder makes the trip up to the nipple.

Bob

[smylee grouch]

The patent breech, if of proper size and shape and when loaded right is a great feature. It will also give you room to get powder in behind the ball when you dry ball. 

[Bob Roller]

I made some of the bolster style breeches when helping Bill Large and used a ball end mill with 2 flutes and usually a 3/4x16 thread.
Later there were castings that helped a lot but care had to be used and the Hawken Shop when owned by Art Resell in St. Louis had
them cast and Xrayed to find voids in the castings and had them destroyed when any flaws were found.IF I were going to make a bolster breech it would have a tapered chamber so maximum strength would be in the threaded area.When Don Brown started making his Alex Henry styled rifles he asked me about breech plugs and I told him about the Xrays used by the Hawken Shop and recommended he do it as well.The pressures of 90 grains of good quality black powder pushing a bullet of 500/550 grains is higher that the much lighter round balls used in a Hawken or similar rifle.I think a 58 caliber ball might weigh 280 grains----maybe.
Bob Roller

[Jim Kibler]

One great thing is that our breech assembly will be 100% machined.  Even with x-ray, castings for this are far from ideal.  Besides safety, everything will fit together exactly like it should.  No loose parts.  No parts that require filing to fit.  No parts that don't fit the barrel OD properly. No parts that don't fit the stock etc.

[Kevin Fransen]

The wider butt plate and stock will definitely improve the rifle, both aesthetically and functionally. A longer barrel would be nice, but in the end, I have full confidence that what Jim comes up with will be outstanding and well received.

[Jim Kibler]

We are going to have a live youtube video on Saturday February 1st.  With this style you can type in comments or questions during the video and we'll try to answer them.  The upcoming Hawken should be a great topic as well as anything else associated with our business including future gun kits, accessories etc.  Should be fun!  Hope to see you there.  Here is the link:

https://youtube.com/live/ZquSVEcsd_I?feature=share

[Darkhorse]

Just curious, can you tell me why you don't like the patent breech?

Isn't that authentic to the originals?

I'm not a lefty, but my dad was, so I can understand that left handed people would like to see rifles made for them as well.

However, I also understand that Jim has to keep his business profitable, so producing a left handed rifle is up to him.

I love his kits, I have several, and will buy this one.


[/quote]

Mainly I don't like patent breech's because sometimes, though rarely, the powder will/can bridge at the entrance to the powder chamber. usually this is unknown to the shooter who then loads the patch and ball but the rifle won't fire because there is no powder to ignite in the chamber. Bad enough when just practicing but a disaster when a big buck shows up after sitting all day.
My solution was to tilt the rifle and pour the powder slower while tapping the rifle with my palm. Then if time permitted I would check with a vent pick to insure powder was in the chamber before ramming in the patch and ball.
After I built my first rifle I never shot another with a patent breech.

Yes it is Jim' buisness not to offer LH versions and I'm not trying to force him to build one. But lately I have watched some videos of people assembling his kits and I'm impressed with the fit of his parts and the ease of assembly. I am getting older and have health issues with my shoulders and back to the point I'm not sure I can do the filing or bend long enough for inletting. That is the main reason I posted this.
Of course I cannot tell what the future will bring but at this point I doubt Mr. Kibler will ever offer any LH products. I think our (Southpaws) best hope is that someone else will begin offering quality NC cut stocks with some LH offerings. Just that would solve my problems.

[smylee grouch]

If the FRONT of the p;ug has a cone shape and the hjole of the anti-chamber is not too small in diameter the powder can flow better. Also i9f the powder is poured not dumped into the barrel there will be less chance of it bridging up, especially  with that cone to help direct it .





Just curious, can you tell me why you don't like the patent breech?

Isn't that authentic to the originals?

I'm not a lefty, but my dad was, so I can understand that left handed people would like to see rifles made for them as well.

However, I also understand that Jim has to keep his business profitable, so producing a left handed rifle is up to him.

I love his kits, I have several, and will buy this one.

Mainly I don't like patent breech's because sometimes, though rarely, the powder will/can bridge at the entrance to the powder chamber. usually this is unknown to the shooter who then loads the patch and ball but the rifle won't fire because there is no powder to ignite in the chamber. Bad enough when just practicing but a disaster when a big buck shows up after sitting all day.
My solution was to tilt the rifle and pour the powder slower while tapping the rifle with my palm. Then if time permitted I would check with a vent pick to insure powder was in the chamber before ramming in the patch and ball.
After I built my first rifle I never shot another with a patent breech.

Yes it is Jim' buisness not to offer LH versions and I'm not trying to force him to build one. But lately I have watched some videos of people assembling his kits and I'm impressed with the fit of his parts and the ease of assembly. I am getting older and have health issues with my shoulders and back to the point I'm not sure I can do the filing or bend long enough for inletting. That is the main reason I posted this.
Of course I cannot tell what the future will bring but at this point I doubt Mr. Kibler will ever offer any LH products. I think our (Southpaws) best hope is that someone else will begin offering quality NC cut stocks with some LH offerings. Just that would solve my problems.
[/quote]

[Scota4570]

When I made my Hawken I  did not use the supplied plug, 

It had a long 1/8 angled  hole going from the edge of the plug nose to the area under the nipple.  It nearly broke through at the corner of the barrel threads.   It also had a notch in the sealing surface that would have made a fouling trap.  I have experience with a plug like that and it was terrible for reliability.  I threw it away. 

I got an as cast blank and machined it with a deep chambered plug nose.  I had to drill a  hole to connect the powder chamber from the opposite flat.  The cross drilled hole was plugged after.  Some call it a "patent breech".  It works reliably. 

[canadianml1]

I am very interested in this new offering but I am concerned that it is going to look like a 'carbine' with such a short barrel! I would prefer a 34 inch barrel to avoid making it look like a 'T/C  like Hawken' that looks almost 'toy like'. What would the extra two inches weigh? JMHO!!

[Hawg]

I am very interested in this new offering but I am concerned that it is going to look like a 'carbine' with such a short barrel! I would prefer a 34 inch barrel to avoid making it look like a 'T/C  like Hawken' that looks almost 'toy like'. What would the extra two inches weigh? JMHO!!

How long would you say the barrel is on mine?