Chisel Sharpening

[greymount]

I have a set of Pfiel chisels purchased from Woodcraft and was wondering what is the best angle for inletting and general gun building.  I believe that the Pfiel chisels come from Woodcraft with about a 15 degree angle.  Should the angle for gunbuilding be 20 or 25 degrees or is the 15 degree angle good enough.  My chisels are getting dull and have to be resharpened.

[Rootsy]

Those chisels will have 2 angles on them... The primary angle and the secondary... If you look closely at the tip you will see a steeper angle starting from the edge than the overall big one you see in a macro view.  The back should be dead flat.  Concentrate on only putting an edge back on the front angle and flattening the back. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have some Pfiel chisels too, and they have the same angle on both sides...not a flat back and single bevel.  I am sharpening them only on one side moving toward having only the one bevel...cause it's what I'm used to.

[Acer Saccharum]

I use both angles, but for different applications.

If you tend to use a chisel to pry the wood out, make them steeper angled, so the edge is thicker. Blasphemy, yes, but in a straight down cut, like a barrel tang or a patchbox opening, I tend to pry at the bottom of the cut. If the chisel is really fine, I can chip the edge.

On the other hand, in light paring or shaving cuts,  like a low angle chisel since it takes less effort to push or tap it through the wood.

Tom

[bluenoser]

Chisels and gouges can be ground and honed with either a single bevel or primary and secondary bevels.  The secondary bevel can be either on the same face as the primary bevel or the opposite face.  By putting the secondary bevel on the opposing face, one is able to reduce the angle of the primary bevel without weakening the edge.  The advantage of this approach is that it lowers the attack angle of the tool and increases efficiency and control (in my opinion).  Be forewarned, putting a secondary bevel on the inside face of a gouge ground with an outside bevel (out-cannel bevel) will change the radius of the cutting edge to some degree.

I grind and hone my carving tools at a bevel of 22.5 degrees with no secondary bevel.  At that angle, one does not want to pry chips out.  I grind my chisels at an angle of about 20 to 25 degrees (depending on intended use) and add a 5 degree more or less secondary bevel on the same face.  Makes for a stronger edge that is more likely to stand up to abuse.  In my opinion, omission of the secondary bevel gives better control of the tool - especially when using chisels with the bevel down.

I recently picked up some good advise with regard to stropping.  Like many others, I have used a piece of stiff leather with honing compound to do my stropping.  It works well, but tends to round the cutting edge somewhat.  I now use thin cardboard like that found in cereal boxes or kleenex boxes instead of leather.  It seems to produce a noticeably keener edge without the rounding over.  I seem to have an endless supply of raw material too.

This is pretty much just my opinion based on about 25 years experience on and off as a cabinetmaker. Hope it helps.

[Jim Kibler]

bluenoser,

That's a good description of the benefit of the double bevel chisel.  I use both a single and double bevel, but often find the double to be beneficial when I'm forced into a bevel down situation. 

[bluenoser]

Jim,

Is your secondary bevel on the same face as your primary bevel?  I suspect it is.  I agree with your observation.  The secondary bevel on the same face makes it easier to keep the cutting edge on a flat chisel from diving in when cutting bevel down.  Acts as a fulcrum close to the cutting edge.  I find the single bevel makes it easier to obtain a dead flat surface when working bevel down because I have a broader surface to index against and the fulcrum is farther away from the cutting edge.  If that is not an issue, I too favor a double bevel on flat chisels for working bevel down.  By the way, I am not a fan of skews ground equally on each face.  I think they are a poor tradeoff for right and left hand ground skews.  I have had a few and never enjoyed using them - or trying to use them.   I usually end up regrinding them to either left or right hand with a bevel or bevels on only one face.  Big improvement in my opinion!!!

Laurie

[Jim Kibler]

Jim,

Is your secondary bevel on the same face as your primary bevel?  I suspect it is.  I agree with your observation.  The secondary bevel on the same face makes it easier to keep the cutting edge on a flat chisel from diving in when cutting bevel down.  Acts as a fulcrum close to the cutting edge.  I find the single bevel makes it easier to obtain a dead flat surface when working bevel down because I have a broader surface to index against and the fulcrum is farther away from the cutting edge.  If that is not an issue, I too favor a double bevel on flat chisels for working bevel down.  By the way, I am not a fan of skews ground equally on each face.  I think they are a poor tradeoff for right and left hand ground skews.  I have had a few and never enjoyed using them - or trying to use them.   I usually end up regrinding them to either left or right hand with a bevel or bevels on only one face.  Big improvement in my opinion!!!

Laurie

Laurie,

I do use a small micro bevel in conjunction with the primary bevel on all of my chisels and gouges.  To me it makes sharpening simpler and doesn't cause any problems.  In addition, like you mentioned, it can help in acting as a folcrum in controlling cut depth.   You know, I never gave the double bevel (bevels from both sides) chisel much of a chance until recently, but like it.  I find it especially usefull for in situations such as backgrounding carving when forced bevel down.  I use a skew chisel more than any other tool when carving, but I only have the double bevel variety.  Maybe I'll have to get a couple single's and give them a try.  Thanks for the tip on the cardboard as a strop.  I'll see how it works.

Jim

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Laurie,

Welcome to ALR!  That's good info.  Thanks! 

I have a question for you on using the light cardboard for stropping.  Do you use it as is or add some honing compound like with leather?

-Ron

[bluenoser]

Ron,

I should have been more specific.  I use the same compound I would use on a leather strop.  I strop flat chisels on the back stroke - the same as on leather.  With gouges, I use a side stroke with a rocking action on cardboard rather than the back stroke I would use on leather.  With the leather, one can cut a groove to match the contour of the gouge.  I haven't found a way to duplicate that with the cardboard yet.  I suspect it could be done relatively easily.  I still touch up the inside edge of gouges on leather, but plan to try cardboard wrapped around appropriately sized dowels.

I can't take credit for this.  A gentleman by the name of Everett Ellenwood has an excellent DVD entitled Beginning Woodcarving.  The DVD has an equally excellent section on tool sharpening.  His website is ellenwoodarts.com.

Laurie

[Tim Crosby]

 Good info all around. Thanks for the link, I'll bet that site gets a lot of ALR visitors, yes I have already been there.

 Thanks Again, Tim C.

[rick landes]

Bluenoser...a question

"I recently picked up some good advise with regard to stropping.  Like many others, I have used a piece of stiff leather with honing compound to do my stropping.  It works well, but tends to round the cutting edge somewhat.  I now use thin cardboard like that found in cereal boxes or kleenex boxes instead of leather.  It seems to produce a noticeably keener edge without the rounding over.  I seem to have an endless supply of raw material too. "

Do you use a honing compound on the board as you would leather?


Ignore this somebody did not read the full posts...

Great thought there Ron!

[Maroilles]

I didn't want to make a new thread and clutter the board with similar topics so I'm gonna post this here.

3 hours of free hand sharpening on 3 different stones and this is the result. How I'm trying to put micro bevel since wallace gusler says it aids in controlling the chisel. This is the hardest thing I've ever done honestly is try to sharpen a chisel. I could very much use some tips and would greatly appreciate it.

[rich pierce]

I need to see it from the side to see the angle of the chisel. If it’s greater than 25 degrees it’s not suitable for fine work in my experience.

[Maroilles]

I need to see it from the side to see the angle of the chisel. If it’s greater than 25 degrees it’s not suitable for fine work in my experience.

Considering I eyeballed it, I can guarantee you it may be over 25 degrees. Besides that though, how do I maintain a straight heel when sharpening and avoid making the surface lopsided?

I guess what I would like it just to see what techniques people are using to sharpen. I pretty much bought the exact same stones as this fella and have been trying to free hand with sorry results like having the cutting edges lopsided so its more of a skew chisel or not maintaining the surface angle. I've noticed almost every video I see they are sharpening larger chisels while I am just trying to sharpen this 1/8th, therefore it seems like I can't just copy the same motions for this smaller chisel.

[Not English]

Maroilles, I'm not sure what people mean by secondary bevels and such. Here's how I sharpen a chisel. I hollow grind the overall bevel on the chisel on a grinding wheel. I hold the chisel bare handed very close to the grinding wheel so I can tell if it's starting to pick up too much heat. After I have a bevel I'm happy with, I take to a flat sharpening stone and proceed to hone a sharp edge on it. I first lay the chisel on the stone with the heel of the bevel just touching the stone. I then elevate the handle of the chisel just till the point touches the stone and push the chisel while maintaining the angle. You don't need to do this a lot. All you need is a small polished surface at the cutting edge. If you look at the heel you will notice a small polished area on the heel. This indicates that you have kept the same angle through all your strokes. Finally I take a couple of strokes on the backside to just knock off the the small wire edge that is left. I always push chisels when sharpening except if I'm stropping them (which I seldom do). I also clamp my stones in the machinist's vise that I have at elbow heighth. I think this gives me more control of my hand movements. Finally after this long winded post, I do want to comment that It's hard to get an even bevel on a narrow chisel.

[Maroilles]

Maroilles, I'm not sure what people mean by secondary bevels and such. Here's how I sharpen a chisel. I hollow grind the overall bevel on the chisel on a grinding wheel. I hold the chisel bare handed very close to the grinding wheel so I can tell if it's starting to pick up too much heat. After I have a bevel I'm happy with, I take to a flat sharpening stone and proceed to hone a sharp edge on it. I first lay the chisel on the stone with the heel of the bevel just touching the stone. I then elevate the handle of the chisel just till the point touches the stone and push the chisel while maintaining the angle. You don't need to do this a lot. All you need is a small polished surface at the cutting edge. If you look at the heel you will notice a small polished area on the heel. This indicates that you have kept the same angle through all your strokes. Finally I take a couple of strokes on the backside to just knock off the the small wire edge that is left. I always push chisels when sharpening except if I'm stropping them (which I seldom do). I also clamp my stones in the machinist's vise that I have at elbow heighth. I think this gives me more control of my hand movements. Finally after this long winded post, I do want to comment that It's hard to get an even bevel on a narrow chisel.

Thanks for this, I usually pull so I'll try to push this time and see if I get better results. I'll try to grind away what I've done down to a complete flat bevel and start from there first.

[Mike Brooks]

3 hours of free hand sharpening on 3 different stones and this is the result.

3 hours?

[rich pierce]

To get a 22.5 degree angle without a protractor, make a standard paper airplane. The nose is 22.5 degrees. Grind your chisel to that angle. Then hone the edge for 3 minutes on the coarse stone and 10 strokes each on your finer stones. Slick the back of the chisel for 10 strokes. Done.

[Mike Brooks]

I'm going to have to leave a paper airplane on the bench now for reference. It may be too distracting though.....

[P.W.Berkuta]

I didn't want to make a new thread and clutter the board with similar topics so I'm gonna post this here.

3 hours of free hand sharpening on 3 different stones and this is the result. How I'm trying to put micro bevel since wallace gusler says it aids in controlling the chisel. This is the hardest thing I've ever done honestly is try to sharpen a chisel. I could very much use some tips and would greatly appreciate it.

I purchased a Veritas Honing guide many years ago and find it to give me the best honing job on my flat chisels and plane blades. They have gone up in price but if you are having difficulty sharping your chisels and plane blades it is worth it. it also does micro bevels. They have a small version for narrow chisels. Have a look here <https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/sharpening/guides/101899-veritas-mk-ii-standard-honing-guide?item=05M0901>

[45-110]

the Veritas link says it only goes down to 1/2" chisel width, that's unfortunate!

[LynnC]

Try Not English’s method. It works

[john bohan]

lots of videos on youtube showing how to make a honing guide.

[Pukka Bundook]

I think we  use guides too much. hand an eye coordination can work well if we let it.
I sharpen in  a slicing motion, and it works.

BTW,
An old friend who served his time as a joiner in the 30's told me to never use anything other than neatsfoot oil on your India stone. He said it never gums like some oils.
He is right as well, as I have used it sine about 1970.