Oil over stain.

[Vikingson]

I just picked up a Kibler Colonial from a guy at my muzzleloader club. It’s a beautiful rifle with fancy maple stock. He put a water based stain on the stock but no oil. Now stain doesn’t seal the wood and living in the NW I’m thinking I need to put some boiled linseed oil on it. Now I’ve never put oil over stain. When I’ve restocked modern rifles my finish was multiple coats of Linseed oil and rubbed out with either Pumice or rotten stone depending on how much gloss I wanted. Is it typical to oil over a stain or just live with the stained wood and rub it down with a paste wax?   Thanks.
Charley

[PEARL DRUMS]

You can add oil over either alcohol or water based stains/dyes. You cant add oil over poly.

[Vikingson]

He used Minwax semitransparent stain. Thanks for your input.

[Vikingson]

My mistake. It’s an oil based stain.

[Waksupi]

Linseed is about the poorest oil you can use for a stock finish.

[Vikingson]

Then what oil do you recommend?  All my old rifles were finished in boiled linseed oil.

[Bill in Md]

Linseed is about the poorest oil you can use for a stock finish.

That is why you cut it with about 20% gum turpentine...Do that and you will have an oil that penetrates.

[Bill in Md]

Then what oil do you recommend?  All my old rifles were finished in boiled linseed oil.

Just cut your oil with gum turpentine and you will be fine

[Lone Wolf]

Then what oil do you recommend?  All my old rifles were finished in boiled linseed oil.

There are hundreds of posts on this and other forums about what to use for a finish, so a good place to start would be to do some searching.  That will yield you a lot of information in a short period of time.

I personally use 2 or 3 wipe on / wipe off coats of Laurel Mountain Forge Sealer, then a product called Wahkon Bay Tru Coat that is a polymerized linseed oil-based product I believe.  This combination provides a very durable weather resistant finish that is gorgeous and provides a 3-D iridescence in the grain. 

Boiled linseed oil like you get at the hardware store looks nice but takes forever to dry and offers almost no durability.  Linseed and tung oils make great gunstock finishes as long as they are polymerized, and these are traditional.  Birchwood Casey Tru Oil is another popular example of a linseed oil-based product.

[Vikingson]

I did some searching. Nothing really covered my initial question about using oil over the stain. I’ve used Boiled linseed oil since the 70s on walnut stocks, but never over a stain.   Yes many coats are required but if we’re taking the time to build a really nice rifle I don’t see any reason to skimp on the finish.  In my mind there is a lot to be said in sticking to tradition. My main question has to do with if the stain penetrates the wood pores will the oil still do it as well. Thanks for all the input.

[recurve]

here is chambers oil over mtn laurel cherry &lancaster with yellow base



here is boiled linseed oil over the cherry& Lancaster no yellow

[Bigmon]

That's pretty much how most are done.  Stain it, then use a finish, mostly oil of one type or another. There are many options and all should work to some degree or another.  I used to use TRUE OIL, available about any where.  But now I use Chambers oil.  I like it the best.
I always stain, then oil finish.

[Scota4570]

Oil based hardware store stain is the wrong thing to use on maple.  Ferric nitrate , aqua fortis, should be the first step.  Then if needed use dye stain or leather dye.  Then think about sealers and finish. 

The deed is done.  I'd wipe it down with lacquer thinner and remove as much of that stuff as you can.  Because that hardware store stain was used you will have to use leather dye or dye stain. 

After that use any oil based finish you like. 

I just got one done.  The finish took two and a half days.  Dilute spar varnish with japan dryer.  Three coats put on very thin.  Then waxed with slackum.  Slackum is bee's wax, carnuba wax, BLO and turpintine.  I helped the wax soak in with a heat gun. 

[Vikingson]

Oil based hardware store stain is the wrong thing to use on maple.  Ferric nitrate , aqua fortis, should be the first step.  Then if needed use dye stain or leather dye.  Then think about sealers and finish. 

The deed is done.  I'd wipe it down with lacquer thinner and remove as much of that stuff as you can.  Because that hardware store stain was used you will have to use leather dye or dye stain. 

After that use any oil based finish you like. 

I just got one done.  The finish took two and a half days.  Dilute spar varnish with japan dryer.  Three coats put on very thin.  Then waxed with slackum.  Slackum is bee's wax, carnuba wax, BLO and turpintine.  I helped the wax soak in with a heat gun. 

I agree, I wouldn’t have used the Minwax but it is what was done.  I’m just trying to make the most of what I have. So unfortunately I’m stuck with it. There are a whole bunch of gun specific stains out there and will use them on my own build. Slackum is a great finish to really seal the wood. Thanks for the input.

[Scota4570]

Use some brown leather dye.

[Vikingson]

Use some brown leather dye.

👍

[Vikingson]

here is chambers oil over mtn laurel cherry &lancaster with yellow base



here is boiled linseed oil over the cherry& Lancaster no yellow

Very nice. I like them both but the BLO really pops. Thank you

[smart dog]

Hi Charley,
Probably 99.99% of maple stocked long rifles are stained and then finished with some sort of oil-based varnish.  Unless the stain the guy used contains finish, you should have no problem whatsoever putting your favorite oil based finish on top of the stained wood.  I lived in SE Alaska for over 20 years, a place that makes coastal Washington and Oregon look like dry and sunny Montana.  I urge you to rethink your favorite linseed oil finish.  Let me suggest an alternative. If you insist on linseed oil then mix 25% linseed oil (hardware store boiled linseed or raw oil is fine), 25% polyurethane varnish, and then 50% mineral spirits or turpentine.  I would substitute tung oil for the linseed but linseed works OK.  You can use that mix to simulate the appearance of any original long rifle low to high gloss and it is far superior to boiled linseed oil with respect to weather resistance. I would still be using that mix with tung oil if it was not for the fact that I can now buy Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil, which I prefer.   

dave

[Vikingson]

Hi Charley,
Probably 99.99% of maple stocked long rifles are stained and then finished with some sort of oil-based varnish.  Unless the stain the guy used contains finish, you should have no problem whatsoever putting your favorite oil based finish on top of the stained wood.  I lived in SE Alaska for over 20 years, a place that makes coastal Washington and Oregon look like dry and sunny Montana.  I urge you to rethink your favorite linseed oil finish.  Let me suggest an alternative. If you insist on linseed oil then mix 25% linseed oil (hardware store boiled linseed or raw oil is fine), 25% polyurethane varnish, and then 50% mineral spirits or turpentine.  I would substitute tung oil for the linseed but linseed works OK.  You can use that mix to simulate the appearance of any original long rifle low to high gloss and it is far superior to boiled linseed oil with respect to weather resistance. I would still be using that mix with tung oil if it was not for the fact that I can now buy Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil, which I prefer.   

dave

Thanks Dave. That mixture is very similar to what a wood worker named Sam Maloof used on his fine furniture. Only real difference is he added a hand full of beeswax on the final coat. I’ve read a lot about the differences between tung oil and boiled linseed oil. Seems metabolically they are very similar but tung seems to get a harder finish.

Yeah I know SE Alaska pretty well too lol. The real definition of Rain Forest haha.

Thanks again
Charley.

[Lone Wolf]

Let me suggest an alternative. If you insist on linseed oil then mix 25% linseed oil (hardware store boiled linseed or raw oil is fine), 25% polyurethane varnish, and then 50% mineral spirits or turpentine.  I would substitute tung oil for the linseed but linseed works OK.  You can use that mix to simulate the appearance of any original long rifle low to high gloss and it is far superior to boiled linseed oil with respect to weather resistance. I would still be using that mix with tung oil if it was not for the fact that I can now buy Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil, which I prefer.   

dave

Does it matter what luster for the polyurethane varnish? Most of the commonly available polyurethanes I see in stores are sold in flat, satin, semigloss, high gloss, etc.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I used high gloss but it did not produce that sheen unless I wanted it because the whole mix was diluted with mineral spirits or turpentine.

dave

[Vikingson]

So I talked to the guy I bought the rifle from. He stained it with the Minwax gunstock stain and used a beeswax/orange oil furniture polish on it. I’m not sure where this will go now. Do I try to strip it all off or just hang loose and hope it works out.  This isn’t how I would ever finish a stock but it is what I have. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Living in the pacific north wet I would really prefer a stock that is properly sealed. It doesn’t appear the barrel channel or the lock mortise is sealed, just stained.

[Scota4570]

Buy a new stock from Kibler and do it right?

I am sure that the grain is not looking as good as it could have.  You have furniture polish wax worked into it.  You may have silicone in the wood.  Not sure what product was used.  IF it was a "Pledge" kind of furniture polish you are limited.   That has silicone oil in it.  l will not work with varnish.  The furniture polish excludes using the correct  Aqua Fortis stain. 

Is the color OK?  IF you want is darker use shoe store brown lather dye.  I'd strip as much off as I coulde with lacquer thinner or carb cleaner before staining with the leather dye. 

Finish.  Linseed is a poor finish, especially regarding weather resistance. 

IF it looks OK, I'd go ever everything as is with Slackum.  Mix 1/3 each Bee's wax, linseed oil, and mineral spirits.  Warm it slowly to just melt the wax into the oil them slowly add the mineral spirits.  Let cool.  Use it like shoe polish on the stock. In my rifle above I melted it into the barrel channel and inlets with a heat gun.  The excess was sopped up.  The outside was polished with a rag.  That treatment will be about as good as anything to shed the water.  You can use Slackum as a maintenance  stock butter. 

Keep in mind no finish can make wood fully waterproof. 

[Vikingson]

I’m learning that linseed oil isn’t what it used to be. The bees wax/orange oil doesn’t look too bad for what it is. Howard’s Feed and Wax.  Fortunately it seems to have bees wax, carnauba and oil in it. I wouldn’t mind it being a bit darker and less red. I understand that nothing makes wood water proof but a good oil sealer that fills the pores helps if caught out in rough weather. I’m actually thinking of seeing if I can strip the finish off and lighten the red stain and going over it with a darker stain. I’ve read that Jim Chambers oil is really good as is Laurel Mountain Forge’s. I just hope I can get the wax finish off well enough for the oil so soak in.

[oldtravler61]

  I build picnic tables and benches. I use Min Wax on all of them. They are left outside all year long uncovered.  I doubt any Longrifle will take that kind of abuse. The only issue I see is some fading from the sun. But Min Wax isn't an H.C. finish.  JMHO