Building a true parts gun

[whetrock]

Rich,
One thing to bear in mind when fine boring an old smoothbore barrel, is that a great many of them are not a true cylinder from end to end, but  bored on the 'Friction and relief' principle.
This can mean either a bit wider bore at chamber end, Or, a bit tighter, then a cylinder section, then the last part, (maybe about 9 inches, depending on barrel length)  will be relieved a bit towards the muzzle.
I have always spill bored rather than use a reamer, but it is likely a bit slower.   Its how I think the barrels were finished prior to rifling at Williamsburg, and the way English best guns are still finished.
(Boring bit with one sharp side, a wood slipper, and plenty of newspaper strips and oil!)

I'm familiar with the technique at CWF, but not with the terminology. Is your last sentence a definition of "spill bored"? If not, what does that word mean? Thanks in advance.

[Pukka Bundook]

Whetrock,
Its just the maybe only English term for fine boring with the single edge cutter wooden slipper and paper.
 very smooth even surface can be had, as long as the cutter is sharp!
And don't stop half way through!...or change direction half way through a cut.

All best,
R.

[reddogge]

These are fun projects. I built my 11 yo son a rifle in 1980 using junk, reject, scrounged, and homemade parts. It turned out really nice. He still has it.

[alacran]

Rich this is an interesting project you are undertaking. I have some thoughts.
IMHO, a colonial gunsmith would not have access to the universe of old gun parts that you have. I believe that he would have parts from guns that were maybe not repairable or from guns he would have taken in trade and possibly military guns that were sold off as obsolete. Maybe guns that were so trashed by the owners that he may have offered to buy as a trove of parts.
I think that a gunsmith predating 1780 putting together a gun from parts would probably be of mismatched parts. A French TG, an English BP, a Dutch or German lock maybe a French barrel, the only thing that woold be new would be the wood, and it would have been finished the way he would finish his new creations.

[rich pierce]

Rich this is an interesting project you are undertaking. I have some thoughts.
IMHO, a colonial gunsmith would not have access to the universe of old gun parts that you have. I believe that he would have parts from guns that were maybe not repairable or from guns he would have taken in trade and possibly military guns that were sold off as obsolete. Maybe guns that were so trashed by the owners that he may have offered to buy as a trove of parts.
I think that a gunsmith predating 1780 putting together a gun from parts would probably be of mismatched parts. A French TG, an English BP, a Dutch or German lock maybe a French barrel, the only thing that woold be new would be the wood, and it would have been finished the way he would finish his new creations.

Agree 100%! I have a collection of original locks that are in various states of disrepair or have been converted to percussion. I’ve got an old guard from an early fowler that has been chopped. Almost no front or rear extension. A decent big smooth bore barrel is next. I’ve got one that has been “stretched” and is 46” long and 1 and 1/4” at the breech with a big wallowed out drum hole. I’m not sure I want to try to recondition this one. The barrel joint where is was extended worries me as something that would be troublesome.

[silky]

Not sure it's a true parts gun til you splice together two sideplates!

[rich pierce]

Not sure it's a true parts gun til you splice together two sideplates!

Very cool!



Can you go here https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=83893.0

and give instructions in exquisite detail on how to host pix somewhere and get a hot link that can be pasted herd without modifications that will give us pictures?

[silky]

Not sure it's a true parts gun til you splice together two sideplates!

Very cool!



Can you go here https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=83893.0

and give instructions in exquisite detail on how to host pix somewhere and get a hot link that can be pasted herd without modifications that will give us pictures?

Done. I used the same site you did and had no issues. I hope it helps.

- Tom

[rich pierce]

Very helpful. Thanks!

[Daryl]

Tom, is that side plate backwards? Just struck me as odd the solid section wasn't to the rear.
I don't know why, it just did. Na, guess not, wouldn't line up with the holes. Hurts my neck trying to twist my head around.
Looks GRRRRRREAAAAAAT!

[silky]

Tom, is that side plate backwards? Just struck me as odd the solid section wasn't to the rear.
I don't know why, it just did. Na, guess not, wouldn't line up with the holes. Hurts my neck trying to twist my head around.
Looks GRRRRRREAAAAAAT!

Yeah, pretty cool, right!? It was listed on an auction site as a "Dutch Fowler." Looks like a musket sideplate joined (very well) to a fancy sideplate. It would be interesting to know the story behind it.

[Robert Wolfe]

I like that side plate - kinda querky. But I don't see a joint. To my eye it was made that way.

[JTR]

Some old parts that might be useful.

[rich pierce]

PM sent, John!

[rich pierce]

Here’s a big early original Dutch lock I’d use if I found a huge long barrel. The tumbler is a replacement and I’d make a thicker one. The mainspring hook is twice as wide as the tumbler toe is thick. So many possible directions!

[Robert Wolfe]

Love that lock!

[alacran]

I looked at this on my phone yesterday. I was hoping to see it better on my laptop. For some reason the image isn't coming up on this post.
From what I saw on my phone I have to agree with Wolfe. That is a great beast of a lock.

[JTR]

That big ol' honker lock would be perfect!
John

[rich pierce]

Now I’ve got 5 original barrels to consider for the parts gun. In my copious free time I’ll be unbreeching them and reaming the bores. The 2 best candidates for a build are a French trade gun barrel with a sighting rib, about 46” long and .615 bore, still in flint, and an apparently never used 40” round Dutch barrel in .700 bore. The French barrel would be good for a New England fowler build, and the Dutch barrel would work for a composite militia musket using the big lock shown above in this thread.

Question that may horrify some of you: would a colonial gunsmith making a newly stocked gun from a pile of scavenged parts draw file the old barrel, as well as reaming it and whatever else was needed to restore functionality?

Keep in mind that 20 years from now when I pass, nobody will want these old parts. They are not museum-worthy items and whole original beat up muskets with parts like this are going at auction for $800-$1200 today.

[alacran]

Rich I have considered and have had opportunities to buy relic parts as you describe. I wondered exactly what you are pondering.
What keeps me from doing it is that the amount of work involved would actually be more than starting out with parts of a known quality.
It also brings me back to why I as a rule dislike ersatz aging of new guns. No one 200 years ago would make a gun to look like it was 200 years old.
The parts you have would have looked a lot better than they do now and I doubt a colonial gunsmith would do anything more than it was necessary to make a functioning gun.
As a member of Esoteric Eclectic Anachronisms, I hope you find this helpful.

[silky]

Hi Rich,

My vote, based only upon conjecture, is to draw file the old barrel as well as clean up other parts… within reason. “Pragmatic” is a good description of Yankee gunsmiths, but stocking old parts with no attempt at cleaning them up would go beyond that and into the realm of crude.That’s not to say it didn’t happen, though. Personally, I’d like to see deeper pits and scratches left, with the more superficial surface flaws filed out. Maybe give yourself a time limit so you clean it up as best you can without making it look brand new?

When you ream out the bores, would you mind sharing some photos of the process?

- Tom

[rich pierce]

Hi Rich,

My vote, based only upon conjecture, is to draw file the old barrel as well as clean up other parts… within reason. “Pragmatic” is a good description of Yankee gunsmiths, but stocking old parts with no attempt at cleaning them up would go beyond that and into the realm of crude.That’s not to say it didn’t happen, though. Personally, I’d like to see deeper pits and scratches left, with the more superficial surface flaws filed out. Maybe give yourself a time limit so you clean it up as best you can without making it look brand new?

When you ream out the bores, would you mind sharing some photos of the process?

- Tom

Will do, Tom.

[ScottH]

This latest question reminds me of the thread some time ago that was about producing guns in "a workman like manor". Some of the members in that thread posted guns that they had made in less than a week, or up to about a weeks time. Most all of the guns were quite nice.
I think it really illustrates that gun makers in colonial times made guns for every day use and got them out of the shop quickly. I would imagine of course that if they got a commission for a "special" order gun for a dignitary, or gift, some more time would be required.
IMHO
So Rich I think I would do the steps needed to make a usable gun ins a reasonable amount of time. Good luck, can't wait to see what you do with the parts.

[rich pierce]

Fun stuff. None of the barrels are loaded, on inspection. One has a bore that is quite good but it’s been percussed, so after determining if the bore is recoverable, I’ll need to restore it to flint. I have some wrought iron I could use the fashion a plug to thread into where the drum was. The Bess-like Dutch barrel 40” long and .700 bore is almost perfect and I still wonder how old it is.

[Brian Jordan]

I am also very interested in the photos of the reaming process. This is a cool project.