Removing rust

[Daryl]

Good note on the Hoppe's #9 smokeless powder solvent. In rust prevention tests, it proved better than Hoppe's Gun Oil at preventing rust.
Hoppe's #9 (not the BP solvent) was beaten by only one or two others.
Here's what one bloke had to say (I personally have never heard of this product before)

"WD40 ``Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor'' is the best I have found to prevent rust. It's expensive. A 6.5 oz can goes for about $20 at the local hardward store. I use it on the barrel surfaces and in the bore. Firearms are kept displayed in a basement room and never see any signs of rust.Apr 2, 2019"

[Scota4570]

I have not noticed any real difference in cleaning liquids and oils. As long as it has some water you are good.  I do use regular windex, industrial window cleaner,  plain water and moose milk.  IT all does the same job.  for oil I use mostly ATF with a little lanolin melted into it.  Fluid film is a lanolin based rust preventer I use.  As long as I completely clean the bore I get no rust. 

The ammonia Windex vs vinegar Windex was from a BP cartridge book years ago, it was by Mike Venturino.  He only stated that you do not want ammonia in your rifle.  There was no reason given.  I speculate that he was just guessing  and did not test anything.  I further speculate that the amount of ammona in windex is tiny.  The amount of ammonia in copper remover for modern guns is large.  If you clean the bore in the modern gun after the copper solvent, then oil you get no rust.  IF ammonia was really a problem you'd see it here.  Like so many things in the hobby it seems to be based no data. 

[Maven]

Did you ever notice that BP residue on your hands is slippery if you wet them.  That's because those by-products are chemically basic, as is ammonia. You use vinegar and or vinegar added to Windex to neutralize them.

[Scota4570]

Why does that matter?

[Maven]

If you're cleaning BP cartridge empties fired with BP, you don't want to soak the brass in NH4OH as it weakens the brass.  Also, Sweets 7.62, an ammonia based copper solvent, shouldn't be left in bbls. too long.  Windex with vinegar probably works OK on ML's, but I don't use it or ammonia.  Soapy water or 1 Ballistic : 6 water for swabbing work just fine for me.

[HighUintas]

My barrel rusts like a demon when I use water to clean. Every way I tried, didn't work.

Now I'm just using hoppes BP cleaner and then a rust protectant which is patched out with any type of degreasing solvent before shooting. It seems to be working well! No more water cleaning for me if I can avoid it.

[Daryl]

Interesting. I've been using cold (tepid) water for cleaning my guns since about 1975 and none of them have rusted - ever.

[Birddog6]

As for removing rust when this thread started, I would use 0000 steel wool on a caliber undersize Jag with white bore paste on it & do it over & over til rust was gone. then again with thick patches & bore paste. (It is ISSO or something like that)

I clean my rifles upside down in a cradle, use a flushing jig & the lock removed. 1/2 gal water with 1-2 oz of non-aerosol Ballistol  in it & flush til it is clean.  Take a breech scraper & check to see I got it all.
Clean the lock under a faucet with a toothbrush, Blow dry with air.   Spray/soak with Barricade.

Dry it with patches & then squirt Non-Aerosol  Barricade in the bore & pump that thoroughly & make sure it squirts out the vent hole. 
Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down. Swab it one last time & then take out the rod & put it away. 

I like doing them upside down as I don't want water under the lock or barrel channel.

Been doing this for prob 30 yrs now & no bore rust & have owned dozens of ML's.  That waiting
3 days is Crucial. If I walk by it 1-2 day I swab it & put it back.

Takes me about 30 min to clean a rifle good. Takes ? 15 min to get set up. 

I have it written down in more detail for my kids & grandkids.  When I build a rifle for someone I
give them a copy of it. Some say it is too detailed. Could be, but it works.  I know it is allot easier to Prevent rust, than it is to rid of rust.  Your mileage may vary.

[whetrock]

Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down.

Birddog6,
Can you explain a little more about the step quoted above? I'm not sure what this step involves. Are you leaving the wet patch and rod in the bore while the gun is sitting upside down? If that's what you are doing, then tell us more about this. If that's not what you are doing, then help us understand this step a little better. Thanks.

[HighUintas]

As for removing rust when this thread started, I would use 0000 steel wool on a caliber undersize Jag with white bore paste on it & do it over & over til rust was gone. then again with thick patches & bore paste. (It is ISSO or something like that)

I clean my rifles upside down in a cradle, use a flushing jig & the lock removed. 1/2 gal water with 1-2 oz of non-aerosol Ballistol  in it & flush til it is clean.  Take a breech scraper & check to see I got it all.
Clean the lock under a faucet with a toothbrush, Blow dry with air.   Spray/soak with Barricade.

Dry it with patches & then squirt Non-Aerosol  Barricade in the bore & pump that thoroughly & make sure it squirts out the vent hole. 
Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down. Swab it one last time & then take out the rod & put it away. 

I like doing them upside down as I don't want water under the lock or barrel channel.

Been doing this for prob 30 yrs now & no bore rust & have owned dozens of ML's.  That waiting
3 days is Crucial. If I walk by it 1-2 day I swab it & put it back.

Takes me about 30 min to clean a rifle good. Takes ? 15 min to get set up. 

I have it written down in more detail for my kids & grandkids.  When I build a rifle for someone I
give them a copy of it. Some say it is too detailed. Could be, but it works.  I know it is allot easier to Prevent rust, than it is to rid of rust.  Your mileage may vary.

I wouldn't mind having a copy of your detailed instructions. Is that possible? I'd like to try it.

[Birddog6]

Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down.

Birddog6,
Can you explain a little more about the step quoted above? I'm not sure what this step involves. Are you leaving the wet patch and rod in the bore while the gun is sitting upside down? If that's what you are doing, then tell us more about this. If that's not what you are doing, then help us understand this step a little better. Thanks.

Yes,  When all done & bore it dried.  I squirt some non-aerosol Barricade in the bore & wet a patch & shove it all the way to the breech & force the excess out the vent hole (you best have a rag there, cause it will shoot out 20'  ) and Leave patch, jag, & rod in the barrel & put it in the corner Inverted (muzzle down) for 3 days.  Swab the bore 2nd & 3rd day. Pull the RR with patch & put the cleaned lock back on, put it in the safe.
It is Most Important this is all done with rifle Upside Down & I have the muzzle slightly lower than the breech end.  This way no chance of any water getting under the barrel.

I will look up the directions. .  I posted it years ago & was told it was to detailed & too much trouble. Well, for some that could be. All I know is it works.

[Birddog6]

See Cleaning a Muzzleloader I just posted.  It won't be there long. PC/HC police will be all
over it, as soon as they are done Buying a premade Stock, Barrel, Lock, Sights, Flints & Furniture to
assemble a rifle, & it will be gone.

[whetrock]

Thanks, Birddog,
Your details here help.
I imagine that one big benefit to leaving the rod in the bore is that it forces the user to remember that the process isn't yet finished. Otherwise, there may be a temptation to just call it done after the first day.

Thanks.
I'll also see your other post.

[Birddog6]

Exactly.  People say, "I cleaned it!" 

One drop of water.  Just one.  Now we have a issue.  Eliminate the human error.