Machined Cock

[Jim Kibler]

So, we lost a big package of castings due to UPS recently and are now short of SMR cocks.  It's a good bit of work and less efficient of a process, but we can machine them to keep kits rolling out the door.  Here's a model I recently made.




We'll machine these on a bar fed multi-axis Mazak mill/turn machine.  It will feed bar stock in one end and @#$%/!! out fully machined parts out the other.

Maybe I'll show some more updates on the process as it proceeds.

[Jim Kibler]

Apparently you can’t even say p o o p here. 

[rich pierce]

Apparently you can’t even say p o o p here.

I did have to check this one out!!!! 

[smylee grouch]

Looks good from here. Curious is the steel in the machined version is as good as or maybe better than the cast version ?

[Jim Kibler]

Well, they should work pretty much the same.  After filing and polishing, you probably won't be able to tell how either was made.  The machined version should finish up a little quicker as the surfaces are a little more precise.  Casting is definitely a more cost efficient process and right now I don't think the benefits of machining outweigh the added difficulty and expense.   With other lock parts this isn't the case.

[Mattox Forge]

Jim,

What software did you make the model with?

Mike

[Jim Kibler]

This was done in Fusion 360.  I'm developing a pretty good process for modeling cocks now.  Like most things, it's not easy, but once you figure things out it's not too bad.

[Mattox Forge]

I wondered if you were using Fusion. I suspect it does a better job with organic shapes than solidworks. I will have to give that a try. I have been working with 3D scans to try and duplicate original lock parts for repair work. The scan data doesn't get you to a machinable model, but being able to import the scan into CAD and building a model to match (i.e. standard reverse engineering) works, if you can beat the CAD software into submission.

Mike

[Jim Kibler]

I'm no modeling expert, by far.  I'm not sure fusion will be substantially different than Solidworks with the techniques I use.  I basically either model from the solid or sometimes from surfaces and stitch them together.  Basically I use all of the standard modeling tools (extrude, sweep, loft etc.).  Fusion does have a sculpt environment that basically allows you to push and pull surfaces around to create a form, but I don't use this at all.

A basic scan is helpful, but since I don't have a scanner, I often just use photos from a couple of angles and calipers etc. 

I had in the back of my mind that I might try to make a video on the modeling process on the next one, but it depends on how clean I can make everything work.

Jim

[recurve]

lost a big package of castings due to UPS

sounds like the post
  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84268.0
about UPS no longer handling anything Gun related   

[Jim Kibler]

We didn't get any kind of a notice of a violation, just that the package was lost.  This really set us back and cost us a lot of money.

[Daryl]

lost a big package of castings due to UPS

sounds like the post
  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84268.0
about UPS no longer handling anything Gun related   

Interesting because ML's are not considered firearms in the States.
Here, it's just flintlocks and matchlocks that are not considered firearms.
Caplocks are firearms here.

[Jim Kibler]

I think the package of castings from the foundry was legitimately lost.  Still very frustrating...

[HSmithTX]

Nice looking cock Jim...

Mattox Forge,

STL or Stereo Lithography is what you are looking for,  or a 3D laser scanner. STL files are insanely big, advantage to the laser there.  The STL file will be tens of millions of points to billions of points and the advantage is you get ALL the points, the laser depending on software will stitch the points together into a surface but sometimes you lose some fine resolution. Higher end is better regardless of type and the units that will give you data that you can work with right from the scan are big money.  But there is likely a contract metrology outfit near you that will do it for a fee.  Zeiss has one of the better distribution networks in the country, you can locate a dealer from the network and the dealer will likely help you find a shop to scan your parts if they aren't interested in trying it themselves.

[Jim Kibler]

3d scanners certainly have uses in reverse engineering parts.  We've employed scanning services in the past.  On the low end they can be used just as a guide when traditionally modeling parts.  You can also use the data to create surfaces and solid models with reverse engineering software.  The downside is that the model quality is not nearly as good as directly modeling something.  You can also, machine directly from 3d scanned data (stl file), but the files are very unintelligent and can't be modified in any way etc.  There are also limitations and comprises with scanned data (internal and external corner rounding etc.)

The best method I have found is to directly model something.  Having scanned data is certainly a benefit to this process with complex or organic parts.

[Bob Gerard]

UPS has been notorious to you guys, ugh 😖

When I was building and sending out Kibler rifles in your wooden crates, I seriously thought of making fake labels that read “Old Country Grandfather Clocks” or something like that and sticking fragile labels on them. Even UPS people can’t want to damage Grandfather Clocks 🤓

[Scota4570]

When something important is being shipped and Apple Air Tag GPS tracker can be added.  That way it can be located at any time.   

[longcruise]

lost a big package of castings due to UPS

sounds like the post
  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84268.0
about UPS no longer handling anything Gun related   

Apparently Gun Broker has just set up a shipping agreement with UPS.  Don't know what to think 😕

[chris laubach]

Solidworks works great for this but you will find it much easier if your surface modeling. I have used Pro-E, Solidworks, Croe non-parametric, NX and recently Fusion 360…. Solidworks is still my go too.

Chris

I wondered if you were using Fusion. I suspect it does a better job with organic shapes than solidworks. I will have to give that a try. I have been working with 3D scans to try and duplicate original lock parts for repair work. The scan data doesn't get you to a machinable model, but being able to import the scan into CAD and building a model to match (i.e. standard reverse engineering) works, if you can beat the CAD software into submission.

Mike

[Eric Kettenburg]

UPS has been notorious to you guys, ugh 😖

When I was building and sending out Kibler rifles in your wooden crates, I seriously thought of making fake labels that read “Old Country Grandfather Clocks” or something like that and sticking fragile labels on them. Even UPS people can’t want to damage Grandfather Clocks 🤓

Yes they can.

[Spalding]

Just received one of Jim’s locks with the machined cock and thought some of you might like a look. Should clean up easily and has a nice slip fit on the tumbler. No punch needed to remove.
Bob

[Jim Kibler]

Thanks for sharing this.  Even though we can machine cocks, I don’t think we will in the future as I feel casting is a better choice.  Not as much cost and pretty much equal quality with a decent mold.  This assessment even comes from the fact that we have pretty much the best possible CNC machine (small bar-fed 5-axis mill turn) to do the work.

[Scota4570]

Machined or cast, any thoughts about adding the knurling on the lower jaw ? 

[Jim Kibler]

Traditionally they have teeth raised with a graver and a hammer.  This can't be machined in.  Knurling or similar features aren't something I'm interested in just due to historical correctness.  Maybe we'll add raised teeth at some point.

[Bob Roller]

On some locks I put a checkering pattern on the cock and top jaw.Not traditional but useful,maybe.
Bob  Roller