Author Topic: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.  (Read 1002 times)

Offline Dale Halterman

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Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« on: April 26, 2025, 10:02:34 PM »
A friend of mine is considering buying a rifle which has an L&R Durs Egg percussion lock, and he wants to convert it to flint. I know they make a flint version of this lock, so I told him shouldn't be to hard to do. Just a bit worried about the touch hole placement.

Has  anyone here actually done this? Any pitfall I haven't thought of?

I kinda hope he doesn't go through with it. It is a nice looking rifle as it is.

Thanks

Dale H

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2025, 10:26:00 PM »
First, he needs to find out the size of the drum threads.  Hopefully they are 5/16 x 24.  All I can say is it will be a toss-up as to whether the touch-hole liner will be positioned correctly.  Exacerbating the problem will be illustrated in the image below.  Look at the rear of the lock and the small window for a touch-hole.  If that liner/hole isn't positioned well it will not look pretty at all.

Bob



Offline WVrazd

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2025, 10:50:51 PM »
I have a rifle with the durs egg lock that converts but it was made to do it. The lock will fit perfectly but the drum placement to touch hole placement is where it may need some adjustment such as drilling out to different threads.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2025, 12:16:57 AM »
I did that with an L & R in 1989 IIRC. I think they called it a Late English, flint and perc. Two locks, two Mark De Has barrels and one stock. Fit the perc. drum barrel and lock first. Two identical hooked patent breeches fit to one tang. Drill vent into flint breech chamber. Not the same as what you want to do but I think you could do it with carefully planning.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2025, 12:20:20 AM by smylee grouch »

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2025, 12:39:10 AM »
It is impossible to say if it will work without handling and measuring. 

It all depends on where the original touch hole line was placed.  IF it was a 1/4" liner you have more room.  A milling machine will be necessary to move the tap pilot hole accurately.  It would be increased to 5/16 or 3/8" NF threads.  If the percussion lock plate is uncut that is good.  You need the drum to be supported by the plate for safety.  I think it is much easier to go from percussion with a drum to flint.  The touch hole location is more forgiving  than the percussion drum location. 

Really, if I rifle is to have two locks it is best to build i that way from the start.  I would prefer to have two barrels and two locks.  Screwing the drum in and out will make the threads loose over time.  Then the nipple clocks wrong. 

I think a dedicated percussion gun and a dedicated flintlock is a better answer.  It is an excuse to buy or make another  gun!

Offline whetrock

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2025, 03:51:09 AM »

Dale,
Am I correct that your friend just wants to convert the rifle to flint?

If I understand you correctly, he is not trying to set it up to where he can go back and forth. Can you verify that?


Offline Daryl

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2025, 04:30:09 AM »
This rifle was a cap-lock when I bought it from Jim Chambers at Dixon's long ago. By the time I received it, it was converted to flint - L&R Durs Egg cap lock to Durs Egg flint lock(seems ro me).


Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2025, 05:57:06 AM »
Quote
If I understand you correctly, he is not trying to set it up to where he can go back and forth. Can you verify that?

That is correct. He wants to use it for the PA flintlock deer season.

I am thinking that best case would be that the drum is located such the he (actually me) can simply replace it with a touch hole liner. Or maybe drill the existing threaded hole out and rethread for a white lighting liner. Worse case would be that the hole would need to plugged and redrilled off center. As Bob said above, that would not look pretty.

Dale H

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2025, 02:44:58 PM »
If the drum already has 5/16 x 24 threads the White Lightning liner will have 5/16 x 32 threads.  They will not clean up well after retapping the 24-thread hole.  Been there done that.  I Red Loctite'd the WL liner in because the threads looked wonky after retapping to the 32-thread.  Tapping specs have a different hole size for each of those threads.  Don't remember which, but one is slightly larger than the other FWIW. The White Lightning liner still tightened up tight though.

Bob

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2025, 03:47:01 PM »
The 5/16x32 is a special thread tap in any shop.Most major industrial supply businesses have them in stock.I had a 1/4x80 and gave it to a fine gun maker in that dark and odd land North of this one ;D ;D.I made a few folding tang sights for long range guns of both muzzle and breech loading that was an 8x40 for the elevation screw.One poster here wanted to know why the special threads were needed and the answer is that 40 threads per inch are associated with accurate measurement as used in a micrometer where one full 360 degree turn raises the sight .025 (25/1000th)of an inch.I refer to it as "bonehead math". The 1/4x80 raises or lowers a sight .012.5 of an inch.
BobRoller

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2025, 05:05:05 PM »
You are correct that 5/16x32 is special. Jim sells them for use in installing his white lighting liners, so I do have one.

Dale H

Offline Daryl

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2025, 07:28:30 PM »
I should note that the re-locking was almost a success. Later, Taylor and I made a new vent, with an angled vent hole, so it came out at the sunset location.
The original drum was mounted a little high, making the first liner too high for good ignition. Now, it works perfectly.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline kutter

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2025, 10:57:26 PM »
If the drum threaded hole doesn't allow for a switch to a liner that will leave the flash hole in the right position for you,,
I would do the following:
If the drum threads are deep and strong I would use those if possible and a liner with a shallow counterbore.
If they don't look to good, I would recut the threaded hole one size larger and re-tap with a fine thread.
If you do the latter you can also reposition the drum threaded hole just a little as well.

Recutting/tapping the hole,,then cut a shallow counter bore at the entrance to eliminate the flush surface  start of the threads.


Then make a replacement liner Blank (no flash hole yet) threaded to fit that new hole and with the small counter bore rim on it.  Leave it long enough to hold on to for installation.
**Make this from plain carbon steel...not stainless. You want this to 'hide' once it's installed and the area of the bbl has it's finish touched up. No sign of a Liner,,just a flash hole in the right position.

Run it in tight, Cut it off just above the surface of the bbl flat on the outside and trim down. Just before the thing is flush, rivit the edge of the new liner into the counterbore around the edges. Don't hit the bbl flat, just the very edge of the new vent liner. I use a small punch and hammer.
The soft steel(s) will cold fuse together and when the blank plug liner is finished off, it will not be seen if done right.
Usually the difference in steel alloy color shade when finished and polished will give it away. But rust browning or rust blue it when completed will make that go away.
I wouldn't use LockTite of any such things to secure it, Just a very tight instal.
If locktite or something like it is used and it gets in that counterbore area, it will sieze there and show a very thin but distinct dark ring when polished flush.
Installed tight, it isn't going anywhere. No body glues the percussion drum in place with the notion that it may just come loose at some point. Not unless the install was less than satisfactory or it's loose in it's clocked position to begin with.

On the inside, file the new liner to conform to the bore.

Now you have a new blank bbl flat to place the flash hole where it needs to be and no evidence of it's past.
Once the new F/Lock is in place, mark carefully and drill for the new vent hole.

If you prefer the Coned vent, cut it from the inside with the handy home-made  coning tool as seen on these pages.
Made with a Demel HS steel V point cutter and a simple handle and extension.
They cut evenly and quickly. Cheap to make too and last and last.
Maybe you don't want or need it coned like a Lightn'in Vent Plug.
Just a straight vent worked OK too for many centurys as I understand it.



Anyway,,That's what I would do

Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2025, 01:08:50 AM »
A friend of mine is considering buying a rifle which has an L&R Durs Egg percussion lock, and he wants to convert it to flint. I know they make a flint version of this lock, so I told him shouldn't be to hard to do. Just a bit worried about the touch hole placement.

Has  anyone here actually done this? Any pitfall I haven't thought of?

I kinda hope he doesn't go through with it. It is a nice looking rifle as it is.

Thanks

Having done this before I’d say sure. But I have the capability to make a custom vent liner. The larger standard thread liners used to be available from track of the wolf. If not available I’d make a custom liner on my lathe from a appropriately threaded bolt. BJH

Dale H
BJH

Offline alacran

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2025, 12:47:11 PM »
It is easier to replace a cap-lock with a flintlock than the other way around. The drum on the barrel must be centered on the flat, before the lock is inlet to the stock and the cut out for the drum must fit tight against the drum. So, if the cap lock was correctly fitted to the drum replacing it with a flintlock will have the pan at the proper place.
If the flat where the drum is installed is wide enough and the drum is 5/16-inch, it can be replaced with a 3/8-inch White lightning.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2025, 11:04:59 PM »
First, I want to thank everyone who took the time to share their knowledge and experience with me. I really do appreciate it.

My friend has decided not to go ahead with the project, so I am off the hook.

In PA we have two muzzleloader seasons. In the early season you can use pretty much anything that loads from the front - even in-lines. The second season which runs from late December until late January is flintlock only. He has decided that he will be content with hunting the early season with the rifle as a cap lock.

Thanks again

Dale H

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2025, 01:36:02 AM »
First, I want to thank everyone who took the time to share their knowledge and experience with me. I really do appreciate it.

My friend has decided not to go ahead with the project, so I am off the hook.

In PA we have two muzzleloader seasons. In the early season you can use pretty much anything that loads from the front - even in-lines. The second season which runs from late December until late January is flintlock only. He has decided that he will be content with hunting the early season with the rifle as a cap lock.

Thanks again

Dale H

Until next year.......... ;D

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Replacing L&R percussion lock with a flintlock.
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2025, 02:30:25 PM »
Quote
Until next year.......... ;D

I will cross that bridge when we come to it. ;)

Dale H