How to identify a Douglas barrel?

[Martin S.]

I bought a Don King Hawken on an auction site.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/5010/1141/d-king-marked-contemporary-flintlock-rifle

I have been told that Don used Douglas barrels and Bill Large barrels.

I carefully pulled the barrel, and the only marking is "1982" on the bottom flat.

No "XX", no "JJJJ", no Large.

So, does the date alone identify the barrel maker?  Is it a Douglas?  Is it something else?

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you,

Martin

[smylee grouch]

I'm thinking that the Douglas barrels had 8 narrow cuts with wider lands. IIRC my 3 Large barrels had 7 wide cuts and narrow lands.

[Martin S.]

Good to know. I'll check that.

[Hawg]

My .54 Douglas has 8 lands and grooves but they look equal in width. Most .54 Douglas barrels have a 1:66 twist. The XX marked barrels are premium barrels.

[Martin S.]

Hawg, does yours have a year date on the bottom flat?

[alacran]

Some Douglas barrels have the rate of twist and caliber stamped on the muzzle. some have G R Douglass stamped on a flat. Their so called premium XX barrels are stamped GR Douglas and the xx in an oval.  The XX barrels are true to center. Their other barrels the stamp is supposed to indicate which flat has the most runout and that flat is meant to be located at the bottom of the barrel channel. I have never seen a Douglas barrel with a date stamp.

[rich pierce]

Am I mistaken or do many Douglas barrels look like they were made from octagonal stock (they were), in the sense that the corners of the flats are not as sharp as those machined from round stock?

[Hawg]

Hawg, does yours have a year date on the bottom flat?

No mine was NOS for an early CVA Mountain Rifle. He sent me pics of it and all I remember it having was made in USA. He cut the breech off and installed a snail breech and I had him remove all the markings.

[Bob Roller]

They were made from octagon 12L14 and the one that blew up with injuries was a 13/16 ATF and 45 caliber.Most were marked with the Douglas name.The barrel material is intended for screws and bolts and not for sudden internal pressures like those generated by any kind of gun powders.Douglas was going to stop the muzzle loading part of their barrel making because in that time frame ANY thing for a muzzle loader had the be cheap and they had all the work needed from making center fire barrels from certified steels.The failure was thought to be caused by a ball not seated on the powder which is possible as later tests proved.A now deceased Douglas employee told me product liability insurance paid for the injuries incurred with the blown barrel.
   Bill Large used 1144 that was much better than 12L14 and it was adequate for a 13/16x45 barrel.After Bill passed away and 20 years later I arranged the sale of his shop equipment and all tools to Jim McLemore who made  barrels from certified for gun barrels steel that was certified for making rapid fire cannons and machine guns.No worries there about a blow up with black powder. Getting back to the original inquiry,if it doesn't have the Douglas name on it can be anything.

Bob Roller

[AZshot]

Bob,
It's always so good to hear from you about Bill Large, from someone who was so close to him.  That's great history.

Martin,
Thats a great looking rifle you bought!  Bob can correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect Bill Large always marked his barrels.  Now someone could have filed that off...if it was one. He also engraved long, humorous names on many of his barrels.  I've read a few people didn't want that and filed them off.

Here is my Bill Large barrel, on the "Old Maid's Dream" JJJJ chunk gun he made.  8 grooves and lands. Wider grooves than lands.

[Daryl]

Bore looks offcenyre due to photo angle not being square with the bore.

[smylee grouch]

I was thinking that Douglas also made barrels for Golden Age Arms. Seven cuts instead of their usual eight.

[AZshot]

Bore looks offcenyre due to photo angle not being square with the bore.

It may look like that. But it's not.

This was to show how many grooves and lands a Large barrel has, and somewhat how they and the crown is cut, for differentiation between a Douglas.

[Bob Roller]

Who made the lock?Don liked my locks but thought they cost too much and would use them IF furnished by the customer.Back in "the day" the lock had to be cheapest thing on the gun and I used to get phone calls and mail wanting me to remake the low end locks they insisted on using.I turned them all down.That was a hoot and a giggle.
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

As far as I know Bill Large always marked his barrels with his name a frequently with a lot of unwanted remarks as well.
Bob Roller

[Martin S.]

Bob, I sent a PM.

I talked to Mike Miller today, and he said the 1982 might be a serial number.

He thought Douglas marked his name on his barrels so deep it would be hard to file off.

[Dphariss]

1982? It's surely a Douglas. 8 grooves about equal lands and grooves 1:66 twist. Don stopped logging the guns he built about 1970-71. If he shortened it at the breech the Douglas markings would be gone.
He now resides National Cemetery at Laurel MT.
Dan



 IIRC (its been a while) I took this at Chadron, Nebraska in in 1972-73. These were all sold guns, from guys at the Rendezvous, he just had them on display at his camp

[Dphariss]

Bob, I sent a PM.

I talked to Mike Miller today, and he said the 1982 might be a serial number.

He thought Douglas marked his name on his barrels so deep it would be hard to file off.

 It's a date, trust me. And as stated above if shortened at the breech, the best idea, the Douglas markings would be gone.

[Dphariss]

Am I mistaken or do many Douglas barrels look like they were made from octagonal stock (they were), in the sense that the corners of the flats are not as sharp as those machined from round stock?

Cold rolled octagonal bar stock 12L14 from what I have learned. Why an actual barrel maker would do this still makes me wonder. But it is cheap and very easy to cut rifle. And they did not have to machine to octagonal.

[Dphariss]

I was thinking that Douglas also made barrels for Golden Age Arms. Seven cuts instead of their usual eight.

 They did answer 48 twist. They also made some "Hawken" barrels in the 70s 36" long and 48" twist. I still have somewhat used GAA 36 cal out in the shop from a rifle I did about 1968.