CVA Mounmtain Rifle

[Not English]

Hey All,

I recently got a pretty good deal on an old CVA mountain rifle that I plan on "St Louising". Is there any reason to modify the horrible breech/drum configuration it has?

[Gtrubicon]

I have a 45 and 50 CVA Mountain Rifle, USA made. I wouldn’t modify it till I determined it wasn’t serviceable. Both my rifles are trouble free while shooting, the 50 has an L&R RPL lock because the original was worn out. They are my most shot muzzleloaders.

[Leatherbark]

I would not modify it for the following reasons.  Whatever modifications you do to the breech will require.

 1. Shortening the barrel slightly by sawing off the CVA breech.
 2. Drilling and tapping and installing a new breech plug.
 3. Re-installing the underlugs to a different location.
 4. Shortening the Rib

 A patent breech might not have the nipple lined up at the CVA hammer. If you went for the drum in the side of the barrel method, you would have to use a flint style hooked breech plug and try to clock it, so it lines up with the top of the barrel flat.  It would be much easier to clock it on a new barrel before lugs and sight dovetails are made.

The CVA breech will be reliable if you pump flush, it with hot water after shooting it and dry it.

Bob

[Joe R]

Thirty years or so ago my MIL bought me one of these as a kit for Christmas. I was working on a first gun at the time which was a TOW Tennessee mountain rifle. The CVA went together much faster so technically it was the first gun I completed. I shot it a fair bit and the gun went off reliably every time as far as I can recall. I kept it a year or so and hunted with it some then gave it to a buddy who was in need of a gun. He has hunted with it every year over the last 30 and I do not recall him ever saying the gun was not reliable in going off. Most of this hunting was in the December snow or rains of the West Virginia muzzleloader season. So looking at it in the surface it may not appear to be the best setup for a percussion ignition system but my experience says try it out there’s a good chance it may function just fine for your needs.

We both cleaned the gun as Leatherbark suggests by flushing and the gun has functioned well for 30 years.

[hudson]

CVA mountain rifle memories, my first build (kit) it was fun. I have taken dear and it has won its share of matches. For me higher muzzle velocity per grain of powder than any other .050 barrel I have ever owned. I suspect the shallow rifling’s have something to do with that. On the native side Lock parts are not tempered correctly to hard and brittle. Three main springs, two sears, and another part I believe, yes there is a way around that live and learn. That breach! Yes little you can do without redoing it is sort of a safety feature. I have been on the line three times in my life during a match when drums have blown out and thankfully no one was hurt. The cross drilled hole from the drum to the bottom if the 8mm chamber is a problem. When wiping after several shots fouling is pushed down plugging the channel, pop a cap or all you will get is a pop no bang. I am presently re barreling that rifle. That hooked breach plug is a pain to make and there is no commercial one available I am aware of. You can raise the cross drill hole from the drum a little and drill the 8mm chamber a little deeper little gain but helps. Two more thing, I will still go deeper into the breach plug when mounting the drum just not enough threads in the side wall if the barrel. That barrel (at least on mine) is an odd size in my case requiring allot of filling on those flats the barrel is not metric not US.

[Not English]

Thanks for the replies. As a gun maker and instructor, I really dislike the setup. It looks to me like the legal department got involved. It is indeed strong but useless for good cleaning and maintenance. Green Mountain used to make a drop-in barrel that was in the white and was a $#*! of a shooter. I've browned several of the barrels years ago for people in exchange for bear grease.

[stuart cee dub]

Several years ago I inherited a mountain rifle from my Dutch uncle who built it from a kit back in the 70’s. At first I was dismissive . The lock was tinkered with to the point of being unreliable, otherwise it was a very decent job. I replaced the lock with an RPL lock and started shooting it .

I wasn’t a fan of the breech set up either . I had read some people actually took a very long drill bit and bored out the powder chamber to a larger diameter. After having shot it extensively and even taking it to some local all day matches I can say it’s quite reliable as is . The hooked breech is convenient for bucket clean -and - pump at the end of the day . Around lunch time I’ll run some solvent through the breech . Generally I load it with 40 grns of 3f behind a .490 ball. 2f ran dirtier and without more cleaning between shots it would get clogged and misfire.
A good pal of mine swapped the flat head clean out screw on his with an Allen head so he could get at the inside of the drum better and faster .

My conclusion on these CVA’s ? Unless it’s broken ,and you have an actual problem doesn’t need fixing , if it runs dirty preventive measures will help keep this gun running .

Yes the breech is a bit peculiar but it isn’t a deal breaker especially if the barrel is in good shape .If I had to rebarrel one of these , that would be another issue entirely .

[Daryl]

I started shooting black powder rifles in Dec. of 1972, with a .50 TC Hawken. By 1974, I had learned to re-crown the barrel, use .022" denim and .005" undersized ball, 2F GOEX powder and it stopped "fouling".
No barrel nor rifle or smoothbore I have had since and there have been a LOT of them, has ever "fouled". All could be shot all day without swabbing, wiping or in any way cleaning the bore, as it was cleaned each time it was loaded, just as Ned Roberts noted in "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle".

[jamie5070]

I still have the parts from my CVA Big bore mountain rifle, in .58. It often had ignition problems. When I removed the drum and nipple, I found that the drum was a bolt that went all the way in until it bottomed out, on the opposite side. The long passage would get fouled and then the problems would start. It was my first bp gun. A kit I got around1975.

[taterbug]

About 1979, first muzzleloading rifle was a CVA 'Kentucky' kit in 45 cal.  Found that the 'chamber' in the front of breechplug was about a 6mm hole (never measured).  It took much effort to keep it clean enough to shoot more than a few shots, and had to use a .30 cal bore brush to clean that chamber.

Eventually removed the drum and redrilled that chamber from the muzzle with a 3/8" drill welded to a 48"x 1/4" steel rod with spacers to keep everything centered in the bore.  Drilled it all the way to the back of the original threads from the drum. Also cut off the inside end of the drum that projected into the new 'chamber', and back drilled the drum to a larger internal diameter to just short of the nipple threads.  it think that was 3/16".  Been a long time.  I could take it apart and take more detailed measurements i suppose. 

Made a big difference in time it took to become fouled.  with tight ball and patch i have shot about 30 shots and still not misfiring from fouling.  Thats about as much fun as I can handle these days.  Also 'seemed' to shoot a bit faster.  i attributed this to having more of a 'charge' getting lit by the cap, instead of burning a long skinny 'fuse' of powder in the original set-up.  Maybe it was wishful thinking! 

But it is definitely much easier to clean at the end of the day.  yes, I still have it and shoot it. 

I did calculate and measure the amount of powder it took to fill this new chamber size so that there was not any chance of air space.  I believe it turned out to be just less than 40 grains, so minimum charge for this set-up was set at 45 grains.  Works out well anyway since it shoots best with 45-50gr. 

Have no idea if this would apply to the Mountain rifle with the .50 cal bore.  the breech-plug/drum setup may be a bit different on the mountain rifle, im not sure.  Someone here would know that. 

[Bob Roller]

My first muzzle loader was a fine 58 caliber Tower short rifle(carbine?) and I was 16. $20 from a pawn shop.No black powder sold anywhere here so another pawn shop in Charleston WVa sold DuPont in the oval cans for $1.50 and my mother had to buy it because I was not 21.
Caps I had,Musket caps by Winchester marked "J.Goldmark's Military Rifle Caps".They were new during the Civil War but most of them fired and I was happy.That gun is still here in Huntington and owned by the son of a now deceased friend and not for sale.
Bob Roller