Current Hawken shop/Griffith parts quality

[HighUintas]

Hi, I would like some feedback on the current quality of the Hawken shops griffith parts. Particularly:

Griffith breech plug/tang - percussion Hawken comma shape
Griffith Hawken lock
Single set Atchison faux trigger

I am considering getting these parts but have seen a few mixed reports in the search.

I am thinking something like the Sublette-Beale Hawken

You can PM if it is not ok to post here.

Thanks!

[HighUintas]

And if the Griffith locks generally suck ... Maybe I'll get a chambers mountain percussion and although the plate is cut for a drum, I think it can be cut for the Griffith breech

[Daniel Coats]

I haven't used one in decades but I think the Griffith lock has a unique hammer. Not sure how much work it would take to get another style hammer to work/look good with the Griffith breech.

Looks are everything on a Hawken.

[HighUintas]

I haven't used one in decades but I think the Griffith lock has a unique hammer. Not sure how much work it would take to get another style hammer to work/look good with the Griffith breech.

Looks are everything on a Hawken.

It lookss quite a bit like a typical Hawken lock hammer to me. What is different about it?

[Daniel Coats]

Very different compared to the Chambers Mountain lock particularly in hammer offset. I don't think it will work at all. The Griffith is meant to be used as a set.

[HighUintas]

Very different compared to the Chambers Mountain lock particularly in hammer offset. I don't think it will work at all. The Griffith is meant to be used as a set.

Oh I see what you mean. Yes, the chambers is very different from the Griffith lock. I figure the hammer could be heated and bent if needed, .

It may be better to use an uncut Davis Hawken lock and fit it to the breech and file the plate to better match the look I'm going for.

I did find an old post by MtnMeek on MLF where he was saying that the Griffith hammer has a curve at the top to help align the hammer cup, etc. they used to offer one with another hammer that was basically the Davis Hawken hammer. I wonder if the current Davis hammer would fit on the Griffith tumbler.

Anyway.... Anyone know anything about their quality?

[alacran]

I have never used the Griffith lock but have used the Davis lock. In my opinion the Davis lock is far superior to the Siler Mountain lock.
Yes you have to heat and bend the hammer, not that big a deal.

[Bob Roller]

The best of the Hawken hammers may be available from the Hawken Shop. It has a concave  top side and I think it's called a Gemmer.
I used a number of them years ago and added checkering for additional traction.There is nothing special about locks used on any Hawken rifle and the locks on the originals were not exceptional and most had a fully cocked tumbler and no undercut first position and "fly".
Bob Roller

[Roger B]

I've been running a Griffith Hawken lock for years with no problem. It is mated to a Griffith hooked breech which performs quite nicely as well. In fact, I have three interchangeable barrels with the same breech which all perform just fine.
Roger B.

[Jim Kibler]

With set triggers and a cap, about any lock will work well.

[rich pierce]

With set triggers and a cap, about any lock will work well.

I agree. There is something special about a skillfully crafted, well-tuned lock, whether percussion or flint, but with double set triggers, percussion locks all feel the same when they go off (to me). Something satisfying cocking a fine one though.

[HighUintas]

Great. I believe I'll order a set and see how I like them.

[Martin S.]

Can you buy the parts without buying the entire kit?

Seems like I asked them this one time, and they said no.

[mountainman70]

Good evening. I built a fs j and s hawken several years ago using the griffin lock i bought off fleabay nos, the comma breach and tang from who knows.
I have pics in my photos but this pos hosting site so messed up this old man cant get it.
What in blazes was wrong with the one we  had?
Sorry. Old man rant .
I can send via email or text
I have shot thus gun a good bit and have no complaints as to the lock
Most all patent breeches are a pain but thats the nature of the brute
Goid luck on  your build
I started the gunin 2017 and finished in 2023?
No hurryu
Best regards, Dave F

[HighUintas]

Can you buy the parts without buying the entire kit?

Seems like I asked them this one time, and they said no.

That's correct. They told me no as well.

[Martin S.]

That's too bad.  I'd like some "authentic" parts, but I'd prefer to pick my own wood.

[HighUintas]

That's too bad.  I'd like some "authentic" parts, but I'd prefer to pick my own wood.

Just take a crack at making them yourself. Then you can have something unique and not the same as most other Hawken rifles.

Post 29
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=62606.25

[Bob Roller]

I think Log Cabin Shop in Lodi,Ohio may own the moulds to make an authentic plate and hammer.I have one of the plates and it is marked J&S Hawken and is from an old project in Texas maybe in the 1960's.I made a number of locks with these two castings.There was also   cast internal parts but they were low end.Making locks should be a study in quality control and locks today seem to be better than what was wanted 50 years ago. I doubt if I will make any locks again and standing and working on small parts is not on my schedule.
Bob Roller

[HighUintas]

I thunk Log Cabin Shop in Lodi,Ohio may own the moulds to make an authentic plate and hammer.I have one of the plates and it is marked J&S Hawken and is from an old project in Texas maybe in the 1960's.I made a number f locks with these two castings.There was also so cast internal parts but they were low end.Making locks should be a study in quality control and locks today seem to be better than what was wanted 50 years ago. I doubt if I will make any locks again and standing and working on small parts is not on my schedule.
Bob Roller

You usually seem a bit more firm in your commitment to retirement, Bob. Now you say you DOUBT you will make any more. Maybe we can convince you?

[Bob Roller]

I have to be now,most of the time in the house.My wife has fallen twice and when it happened she had left her cell phone in the front room and the was in the laundry room which was a back porch.Also my lower back had never been right and spasms have cause a partial paralysis and caused me to fall.On this forum it seems that Herb is older than I am but not by much.IF I am still around on March 27 I will be 90 and
now the time has come to take a break.
Bob Roller

[A.Merrill]

Is this the lock being discussed?   Al

[Bob Roller]

Yes,that is the lock and hammer.The was some objection to the checkering on the hammer spur but traction is also a measure of safety.
I made these for the Hawken Shop when it was in St.Louis in the 1970's along with the long bar triggers and some had the guards installed.
Bob Roller

[HighUintas]

Is this the lock being discussed?   Al

Yes,that is the lock and hammer.The was some objection to the checkering on the hammer spur but traction is also a measure of safety.
I made these for the Hawken Shop when it was in St.Louis in the 1970's along with the long bar triggers and some had the guards installed.
Bob Roller

That is either the lock that comes with their original Hawken kit, or it is their Leman lock.

The lock I was inquiring about is their lock in post #3, which is the Griffith Hawken lock.

However, I cancelled my order of that lock after sourcing a Roller J&S lock here in the classifieds.

[Dphariss]

Any properly designed lock with a decent set of springs and a hard tumbler should have what James Forsythe called a “heavy first lifting”. In a flintlock this keeps the cock speed up as it scrapes the frizzen. On a percussion the higher pressure with the hammer down tends to stop hammer bounce and excess gas excape at the nipple.

For rifles with single triggers the pressure on the sear nose in reduced when the force needed to come to full cock is less than that needed to bring it  off the nipple. But its not as easy as one might think to achieve this and locks mass produced usually don’t. Or its hardly decernable. In playing with a Kibler Colonial, a Kibler SMR and a rifle I built years ago that used late Manton Flint casting (its identical internally to drawings of a later percussion lock by Purdey IIRC). I would rate the Manton first, Colonial (without a link) second and the SMR third. I ended up building the tumbler and spring for the Manton design and suspect the original was much better than what I put together.

Its possible to find this on better grade shotguns and even brass suppository side hammer shotguns. Is is absolutely needed? Generally no, but its still “cool” and it will work better IMO. But ANY leaf spring lock is far better than the coil spring reproductions. In any event you want good pressure on the nipple in a percussion gun.

[Bob Roller]

Dan has nailed the subject and as a former lock maker I endorse all he said.Being able to make springs is a seperate skill set from the rest of the lock parts and once attained then a variety of mechanisms can be adapted and my favorites are the 3 and 4 screw English styles but  they are not seen on American muzzle loaders.I finished a double set trigger yesterday and stood too long at the bench and now low back numb to a noticeable degree.The above lock IS one of MINE and part of my logo can be seen and the date is from 1984.New old stock from 41 years ago.
Bob Roller