Tricks of the Trade?

[TXEBONY]

I'm starting my first rifle, and have spent more time reading and trying to understand methods than behind any tools.  The rifle is partly shaped and the RR hole is done.  Channel is inlet straight the width of the waist (swamped barrel).  There are no classes or cartel in my neck of the woods.  So... I'm fishing for any and all tricks, special tools, order of assembly, favorite books, links, ways to keep things straight.    I guess my starting point will be with seating the barrel.  Another idea would be a live webcam class.  That sounds ridiculous considering, but I'd pay for it.  

[Roger Fisher]

You mention "keep things straight" - Do you have Chuck Dixon's book on building?  He walks you through the process step by step.   Do you have the Book By Alexander - 'Gunsmith of Grenville County' or some such.... He goes in to much more detail........

[Model19]

I'll be watching this thread myself. Just ordered my first kit yesterday. I've got Recreating the American Longrifle as a start.  Might hunt down a DVD or two.
And of course I'll be all over this place!

Geoff

[ehoff]

Roger mentioned the books, there are several DVD's on building, carving, engraving, etc.  Check out the link section of the board for the website of American Pioneer Inc., Track of the Wolf and other suppliers also carry DVD's.

The best advice I can give you is that before you put tools to wood is to get your refrence material, read it, re-read and keep it close at hand for when you need a reference.

[TXEBONY]

I blame it all on "The Gunsmith of Williamsburg."  I have a piece of wood, a barrel, and far fetched dreams.  Now back to the tricks part.  I figure the majority here would account for the apprentices of current times, and quite a few here as the journeymen, along with the last of the masters.  Although it seems to be a pretty large group, in the scheme of things an endangered breed.  I would like an information dump relating to the skills and practice used by you the old guard. 

Gunsmith of Glenville is a book I'm looking for.  I am trying to narrow DVDs and other books to only the "best of the best"

Carl

[ehoff]

I was looking over your first post, you say the stock is inleted to the width of the the waist of your swamped barrel. I take this to mean the stock is inlet for a straight barrel?
My concern is are you going to have enough wood  at the breech end of stock? When you figure increased width of the breech of barrel and the thickness of the lock at the bolster will the stock be wide enough?

[TXEBONY]

Maybe I phrased it incorrectly. It's inlet the same width as the narrowest section of barrel.

[KentSmith]

Dixon's book I like.  Alexander's book is good, I disagree with a number of things but it is in more detail and has better pictures.  H. House's video is great but a lot gets skipped over and I have trouble referencing the material during a build.  Plus Hershel told me he never saw the video personally.  Hummm.

I am not sure if I can speak for most, but I asked the same question - where can I get info about making a gun in detail.  Eventually it comes down to reading as much as you can and taking it slow, making a lot of painful mistakes and building another gun or 2 or 20 until you get it right.  I've build over 70 and still haven't got it right.

Don't be hasty!  Learn how to use a hacksaw, a file, a wood chisel, when to use a rasp and when to use a chisel or gouge, etc.  If you don't know you will soon enough.  Try not to use power tools (other than a drill) until you know what it is you want to do and...don't get hasty.

There are some good tutorials on this board.  Ask questions here if you don't know for sure.  Don't get hasty.

[TXEBONY]

Ok. Rule #1 Patience and Research

[Acer Saccharum]

MAny folks send their stock and barrel out to have the channel cut and the ramrod hole drilled. This can be done for approximately $80 plus shipping.

I have inlet most of my own barrels, and now have gotten too old to spend any more of my life on that chore. Life is too short! I now send them to Dave Rase or Fred Miller.

Tom

[Woodstock]

If you have any luck locating the book "Gunsmiths of Greenville County" let me know. It is out of print and after three days of looking with Mr. Google and calling around I cannot find a copy. I found 1 on Amazon for $180.00. Can't swing that right now. I talked to the publisher. They have received several calls about it but not know when or if there will be a reprint. 

[stuart cee dub]

 Alexander's book is good, I disagree with a number of things but it is in more detail and has better pictures.  /quote]


Agreed Kent  .......For example do not lower the rails of the ramrod channel in the forend to what Mr Alexander suggests (less than half down to a third the ramrod diameter) but his explaination on stock shaping is quite good.
I like ''Recreating the American Longrifle '' shumway alexander bueclee(sp) the best as it has steered me way for more trouble than anything else .Learning from a book is tough in anycase .

 

[TXEBONY]

Rule #2 Make good connections and take advantage of your time

Rule #3 Refer to rule #1 and cross reference info

Acer- What about the Miller/Rase of the future, what type of magical channel machine do they have?
         
Stuart- that's exactly the type of info we need here.

Woodstock- I should have bought it yesterday for the bargain price of $158

[rich pierce]

You'll get a lot of good advice here, but nobody can provide you with all the tricks of the trade or step by step instructions that cover the details online.  It's sort of like saying, "I bought a lot, drilled a well, and I've got a bunch of lumber, concrete blocks and cement mix- so how do I build this house now?"

The internet is great, but insufficient by itself for learning any craft.  To get an overview go to Mike Brooks' tutorial.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/tutorials/brooks/Brooks1.html

[Bill-52]

Carl,

I am in the early stages of building my first rifle.  Prior to starting (in fact, prior to ordering the kit), I purchased, read and studied Alexander's "Gunsmith of Grenville County", Shumway's "Recreating the American Longrifle" and Dixon's "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle".  

All three were extremely helpful in in my starting-from-zero education.  However, now that I'm actually doing the work, I find myself referring more frequently to Dixon's book.  The explanations and sequence of tasks are easier to follow and make more sense to me.  For example, Alexander and Shumway don't pin the barrel in until after a number of other steps; Dixon does that right away.  I'm sure this is a personal preference type of thing but, I'd rather pin the barrel in before positioning the lock, etc.

My other recommendation is to go through the old Gun Building posts, either using the search function or just trolling for relevant topics.

Have fun,
Bill

[TXEBONY]

Got it on my favorites, but it skips seating the barrel.  Love the finished product too, but I'm not putting flat black paint anywhere.  I realize I'm asking for too much, but collectively I think it could be done.  Really don't have anywhere else to turn Rich, so the most I can get here the faster I can order some more flints from you.

Carl

[projeeper]

for gunsmith of greenville co i found a copy on ebay it was used and signed by the orginal owner, you can find a lot of useful books there and there doesn,t seem to be much demand for them i,ve never paid more than 60bucks i,ve now got a small libary.

[ronward]

 Bill52,
     pinning the barrel in early is ok if you're of the caliber of builder as dixon...
        when he does it, he's reasonable sure he's not going to fudge the inletting of the lock and have to shift the barrel forward or aft a bit to have the touch hole come out exactly in the right place! i do admit there is a good reason to lock it in early, it makes a good base to work the stock shape down from and it is easier to be sure of the  locations of the trigger plate and guard. but i don't think i'd trust my inletting that well on the first few stocks.
    

[Bill-52]

Ronward,
Good point.  Given my lack of experience I'm using a pre-carved stock with the barrel channel and lock mortise already roughed out.  Thus, I'm reasonably sure of the correct relationship and can still make small adjustments if necessary.

Nevertheless, I feel Dixon's is easier to understand for a beginner.  Must be the way my mind works.....

[TXEBONY]

It would be nice to poll the amount of people here looking to learn/teach, pick up ideas, and share/admire work.  I'd bet 90%, Learn.  Search engine is great, but clearly lacks answers from the best builders.  If this thread were to work a moderator could clean up the nonessential and leave reference suggestions, "How I do this is", and tips on various facets of building a rifle.  I could slap together a rifle in a week, but it would be painstaking and incorrect. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd like to learn the ways of the experienced instead of learning from mistakes.

[KentSmith]

Boy oh boy. 

Be careful relying on a pre-carve stock's lock to barrel relationship.  I get my stocks carved, barrel + ramrod and perhaps shaped to my patterns but seldom get the lock inlet.  Prefer to do that myself.  There are a lot of good carvers out there and some not so good.  If it's your first, I'd look to get the barrel and ramrod done and maybe the butt carved for good architecture at the most (the latter you need to learn though).  Once more familiar with what to look for in a precarve, then you might get a lock inlet.

I always pin the barrel in after inletting it and the breechplug tag and before I start the lock whether working from a blank or a carved stock.  Maybe because that's the way I learned.  Also helps secure the barrel when figuring the placement of the front lock screw and general lock orientation with the wrist.  A sixteenth off here and there's a lot of work later that could have been avoided.  Ditto with the breechplug face location marking and preliminary vent location (not drilling). 

[Bill-52]

KentSmith, Thanks for the heads-up.  I tried to do sufficient research before starting -- Jim Klein kit, Bob Lepley stock.  I think I'm good....

[Don Getz]

If I understand it correctly, you have a stock with a barrel channel cut into it which is the size of the small part of the swamped barrel you eventually want to put into it.   You also have the ramrod channel and hole in it.   This could present
some problems unless you have done a lot of pre-planning.   Since you are inletting a swamped barrel, will the web between the finished barrel channel and the ramrod be big enough since you will be iinletting downward to get that barrel into the stock?   I also will assume that the stock blank is wide enough to accommodate the lock panels.  I would
have held off on that ramrod hole until you had the barrel inlet.....but, who knows, you might luck out.........Don

[TXEBONY]

I'll post pictures tomorrow. There is enough meat left on the lock area and yes there is a sufficient amount of web to accomodate the barrel's max width.  My next step is what's getting me.  What's the right way to inlet the flares of the barrel on the 5 flats keeping stock to barrel as tight as possible?

Mr. Getz' your question and following "the way I would do it" is greatly appreciated.

 

[Dave B]

Some one posted a site that rented Videos/DVD's on all sorts of things including the APV ( American Pioneer Video)
Herschel House in "Building a Kentucky rifle" program. He takes a block of wood and walks you right through the process of building a rifle.  You really can't beat going to one of the gun-makers fairs to get first hand interaction.
The most important thing is to proceed in the correct sequence of assembly. The barrel should be fully inlet before the ramrod hole is drilled. If the person that routed your stock made sure the bottom flat matched the contour of the bottom flat of the swamped barrel you will be OK but if the routed channel is only to the narrowest profile all the way to the breach you will be needing to inlet that breach deep enough to get the tang flush into the wrist of the stock. When Hand inletting the barrel you need to just rough out the wood that don't belong. I have a wood gouge that with a mallet will make sort work of taking out the bulk. I watched a demo at a Gun makers fair where the builder used a Forster bit to hog out the wood to the bottom of the final breach bottom flat and progressed with the bit shortening the depth as he move it forward to match the depth of the barrel. Having razor sharp tools will be very important. I for get who the builder was that used this Idea but he soft soldered a chunk of metal as a handle to the top flat of the breach end of the barrel to make taking the barrel in and out easy. I liked the Idea because it is easy with out the tang in the barrel to twist the barrel a little and the inlet compound will show as a tight spot on an area that really is not too tight. Sharpen you chisels man and go to work.