Tricks of the Trade?

[Jerry V Lape]

Okay, this is from a guy who built his first flintlock rifle without a mentor or without this website to come to for assistance.  And I was not an experienced wood or metal worker either. I had one book, Shumway's Recreating the Longrifle.  I had no power tools.  But I did have patience and spent more time thinking than working on the gun.  That gun came out real well and is still serving well in the field.  Get one of the books and start.  If you can't figure the next step out after earnestly studying the process and looking at the tutorials - ask for that step.  You will get all the help needed here.  

Also, tell us where you live, you may have a very good mentor nearby.  Wish I had done that, because there was one not  too far from me.  

But you just aren't going to understand the problem until you start taking steps.  And your first rifle probably won't be perfect, and maybe not your 20th either.  There was a reason for the apprentice programs.  Sorry if you don't care for the searchmechanism on here, but it works okay.

As for learning from the best, you might not recognize some of the folks on here but they include many of the best .  Stick around a while, you will figure out who is who. 

[flintriflesmith]

If you have any luck locating the book "Gunsmiths of Greenville County" let me know. It is out of print and after three days of looking with Mr. Google and calling around I cannot find a copy. I found 1 on Amazon for $180.00. Can't swing that right now. I talked to the publisher. They have received several calls about it but not know when or if there will be a reprint. 

Less than a month ago the bookstore at Colonial Williamsburg was selling Gunsmith of Greenville County at retail. They had 4 or 5 copies on the shelf. Call 757-229-1000 and ask for the bookstore/giftshop at the DeWitt Wallace Decorative Arts Gallery. I would not call on a weekend because they have very few operators on duty then. Also check their web site colonialwilliamsburg.com.

[chuck c.]

For those of you who want a copy of the Gunsmith of Greenville County, he did a series of articles in the 07 and 08 Muzzleloader called New Techniques. Not as detailed as his book, but they're pretty good. A lot cheaper to order some back issues than paying that kind of price for the book.

[rf50cal]

Scurlock Publishing's online catalog has The Gunsmith fo Grenville County listed for $45.00 (soft cover)

[rich pierce]

I think a precarve with the  barrel inletted to the minimum diameter of the swamped barrel would be very difficult to work with.  I'd rather inlet the barrel from scratch.  I sure hope they positioned the barrel channel far enough from the lockside to allow for the increased breech diameter of your barrel, else you may not have enough wood to inlet the lock.

[bbhf]

i also am in the process of building my first gun: i have a pre-carved, pre-shaped Figthorn style stock {only inletted for barrel and ramrod} from pecatonica and a green mt barrel: i have the books and some dvd's but most lack the placement of the trigger and lock in a pre-carved, pre-shaped stock: Dixon says measure 4.5in from where the comb meets the wrist to locate the trigger: being unsure of myself is this distance ok place the parts and start inletting the breech end back in the stock: what should i be looking for?? it seems that they leave a large amount of wood to play with at the rear of the barrel channel: i forged my own trigger and plate and a side plate: not sure if i will stay with Figthorn or style it to something else: thanks: skip

[northmn]

First off you place the trigger according to where it sets off the lock.  If you use a big lock the trigger is farther back.  "Tricks of the Trade"  I wish I could give you a magic formula, but most of building is finding specs for wrist thickness/length, ramrod channel barrel web thickness and so forth.  Find guns made by good builders and look at them and see what needs to be done.  Shaping the lock mortise is always an area where first builds tend to glare.  Unless you are very gifted you will screw up something on every build, and learn how to manage that or ignore it.  A noted bowyer for self bows stated that there just is a time to make the chips fly and build bows, that you cannot study your way into a good bow.  Get the training resourses recommended and study them, then make the chips fly.  Some of the "Tricks of the Trade" I use are not used by others and vice versa.  The only Trick I can give is make sure anything that gouges or cuts is very very sharp.

DP

[Randall Steffy]

I may have missed the tip suggesting Smartflix, as I only skimmed this thread. I have rented videos through the website smartflix.com and can recommend them. They have a nice selection of DVDs that will advance your chosen interest. Then, later, buy those you need as a continual reference.
But as suggested earlier, the trade-off between book and DVD is...picture/video worth a thousand words, but you can leave the printed page open for hours and at a flip of that page be forward or backward.

[bbhf]

Thanks for the advice: i am fortunate to own original and customs guns to look at: but like many  i always find it hardest to make that first cut: no turning back: is there anyone in CT that may have a class or would be willing to give a class? thanks again for a great site: skip

[dannybb55]

Start with a good set of drawings and an inexpensive project like a simple hunting rifle for game in your area. One of the several step by step manuals will help too.

[ronward]

 bbhf,
     as northmn said, the triggerplate has to be located by how the trigger bar makes contact with the sear bar. i wouldn't trust locating it off the comb/wrist junction for a couple reasons...
        there's no guarantee the comb is located correctly gor your size of hand, it can be moved back a bit if you've got bigger than normal hands and unless there are sharp corners at wrist/comb juntion, just where exactly does the comb meet the wrist? the radius between comb and wrist can make that junction spot pretty arbitrary.

[TXEBONY]

Colonial Williamsburg has 10 copies of GS of Glenville, uh 9 copies in the bookstore. Thanks. Gentleman by the name of John found them in the back. $45

[Roger Fisher]

i also am in the process of building my first gun: i have a pre-carved, pre-shaped Figthorn style stock {only inletted for barrel and ramrod} from pecatonica and a green mt barrel: i have the books and some dvd's but most lack the placement of the trigger and lock in a pre-carved, pre-shaped stock: Dixon says measure 4.5in from where the comb meets the wrist to locate the trigger: being unsure of myself is this distance ok place the parts and start inletting the breech end back in the stock: what should i be looking for?? it seems that they leave a large amount of wood to play with at the rear of the barrel channel: i forged my own trigger and plate and a side plate: not sure if i will stay with Figthorn or style it to something else: thanks: skip

I'll try to ans your trigger placement question (I'm still not the best answer although I'm at this more than a couple years so double check)  Kinda like "ankle bone connected to the leg bone & leg bone connected to the knee bone etc etc!
Once the barrel and tang is in and barrel is pinned premark the vent center this guides your placement of the lock with the center of the vent at 'sunset position' remember that the frizzen should cover the vent...and the vent should not be buried in the pan!!  Then when the lock is inlet this shows you where your single or sett trikkers should be placed.  Do not fear scribbling on the side of the stock.

[bbhf]

OK thanks: i have the big three as far as books go: Dixon, Alexander, and Buchele, and dvd's by House, Turpin, Silver: all a help but like most written material some things are always left out:  i was thinking the same thing as far as the comb measurement : the end might not be in the  right spot: i guess i will just start carving in my breech and see what happens: i remember when i first started to blacksmith, i had a {big} pile of iron mistakes until i got it right: here goes: skip

[TXEBONY]

Does underlug placement play a role in accuracy?

Carl

[Roger Fisher]

Does underlug placement play a role in accuracy?

Carl

I doubt it, so long as it is not an ultra thin barrel, lugs kept evenly spaced, oblong holes in the lugs to allow for stock expansion and/or shrinkage AND keep them shallow.  my 2 cents worth.

[Ky-Flinter]

I agree wholeheartedly with what Jerry V Lape said in this thread a few posts back.  Good advice.

My first rifle building experience was very similar to his.  Like Jerry, the only book I had at the time was Shumway's "Recreating the American Longrifle".  I now have Dixon's book and Gunsmith of Grenville County, both are good, but the book I go back to constantly is Shumway's.  Maybe it's just because I am used to it.....

-Ron

[longcruise]

I'm starting my first rifle, and have spent more time reading and trying to understand methods than behind any tools.  The rifle is partly shaped and the RR hole is done.  Channel is inlet straight the width of the waist (swamped barrel).  There are no classes or cartel in my neck of the woods.  So... I'm fishing for any and all tricks, special tools, order of assembly, favorite books, links, ways to keep things straight.    I guess my starting point will be with seating the barrel.  Another idea would be a live webcam class.  That sounds ridiculous considering, but I'd pay for it.  

I'm just a bit further down the road than you are so I have no special "tricks" to pass on but the most important lesson I learned right up front is the importance of working with sharp and properly configured tools!!  Get your basic tools together and learn how to use them and sharpen them, etc. 

My daughter got me Alexander's "gunsmith of Grenville County" for christmas.  She searched high and low and was able to locate four copies at the publisher's offices.  Guess I got one of the last four.

Get Dixon's book.  It is readily available and is a good reference.

[Simon]

I have been reading on this sight for over 2 years.  If you stay with it you can learn a great deal about rifle building.  So far the tips, questions,answers , etc have kept me from having to throw out a stock and start over, taught me how to breech a barrel,  how to finish metal, and wood, so much about  proper geometry, and so many other things I can't list them all.  These gentlemen share so much knowledge for no personal gain it is unbelievable. I have wanted to say thank you many times and this seem to  be a good opportunity to do so.  THANK YOU GENTALMEN

Mel

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your first step is to get that barrel into the wood with the web between it and the rod hole an adequate thickness - ie:  5/32" at the breech and 3/16" at the muzzle.  I'm assuming you have a blank that has adequate wood to do this method I'm about to recommend.  The truth is, it would have been easier without the straight barrel inlet you already have.
Buy two lengths of 3/8" square x 48" (or longer than the longest barrel you may ever want)  cold rolled mild steel.  Grind a nice radius on the bottom of both to fit up close to the wood at the breech.  May I assume that you have already sawed off the wood above the half way mark on the barrel channel?
Drill a series of holes into the steel as close to the edge without breaking out as you dare - mine are #23 drill.  Start first hole 3 1/2" from your radius end, and you are making a left and a right - one for each side of the barrel.  Holes 2 - 6 are 3" apart, and all the rest are 1 1/2" apart to the end of the rails.  the close together ones are for the faster curve of the swamp.
Inlet the square breech end of the barrel so that the barrel rests on the top of the stock.  Clamp the barrel at each end to the wood.  Clamp the rails to the barrel while they lay on the wood.  Make a centre punch to fit the holes and punch all the holes into the stock wood.  Predrill all these holes to accept Gyprock screws - I like 'em (in spite of the ridiculous Phillip's head) because they are thin and tough.  They only have to hold the rails to the wood so make sure they are close to a friction only fit - you don't want to break one off in your hard maple.
Screw the rails down to the wood.
Take off all the clamps and remove the barrel.
Grind or file the set off one side of a back saw, and cut down along the inside of the rails to the depth of the side flat.
Use a big gouge to remove the wood in the channel, at least down to the bottom of the side flat.  Use a sharp wide flat chisel to cut STRAIGHT down along the inside of the rails to clean up that part of the barrel inlet.
Remove all the screws and the rails.  Proceed to finish inletting the barrel until it bottoms - the waist bottoms in your straight inlet, the breech is level with the top of the stock, and the web is perfect.
Do 40 or 50 of these and you'll see why some of us grey beards use Dave Rase's service among others.
The bottom line - make some chips fly.  Eat the elephant one bite at a time.  And have fun.

[Tim Crosby]

 Great write up and pics. Somewhere along the line let's copy this and move it into the Toturiols.

 Tim C.

PS: Is that the new shop? It looks so.......used:)

[TXEBONY]

Wow Taylor, thanks for taking the time.  Agree with Tim though if this thread gets many more of those types of posts maybe we could trim the fat off the thread and have it more user friendly.

Back to building... Any trade secrets any in whatever order is cool.  I don't want this specifically tailored for me, but for all of us beginners.

I.e.  I rust my filings before putting into nitric acid to make the stain darker.   Fantasy tip but you know what I mean

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Tim,
That's the before shop and pics of the beginning of the Rupp rifle I took to Dixon's in .07.  That shop I built in '77.  Thanks for the nice feedback on the info.  I got this information from articles by John Bivens in Rifle magazine,which I saved and have in a Taylor made book.  I'm sure there are other ways to skin this kitty, but I know this one works.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Txebony, make sure you open Mike Brookes' tutorial...it says it all, from this point forward.  It's a concise and clear tutorial.