Best Kibler Option for Offhand Range Shooting?

[Sherrell]

Seeking opinions from those experienced with Kibler Colonial and Woodsrunner models…

I’m a 6 ft / 185 lbs early septuagenarian – nor a weight lifter.

I’d like to hear opinions here regarding which of the two Kiblers and in which caliber would provide me the best experience for offhand target shooting at our club?

Before someone recommends it, I’ll admit I’d prefer Jim's SMR in .45 cal for aesthetic reasons.  However, I also need to use the gun in SAR Color Guard events and the SMR isn’t Colonial period-correct.

So, let’s hear those opinions...

[rfd]

Built multiples of both guns.  Their swamped bbls are a boon for offhand.  Had two SMRs, not for me.

If you want lightweight, a Woodsrunner (.54's are best at least for me).  Colonials are definitely heavier no matter what the bore.

[Scota4570]

40 cal SMR for calm days.  45 cal Woodsrunner for windy days. 

[rfd]

Very hard to beat a Woodsrunner as an all around range or hunting rifle, my number one Kibler rifle pick for a newbie kit builder, too.

[Daryl]

For me, the heaviest Kibler rifle would be the best for standing shooting (rendezvous). I assume that would
be the Colonial rifle in .50 or .54.

[Ray Barbarow]

I have assembled several of all of the rifles being discussed. The Colonial is on the heavy side and is very accurate. I have two Woods runners. One 50 Cal. and the second in 54 cal. The 54 cal. is 10 oz. lighter than the 50 cal. My preference for carrying all day is the 54 cal. Both rifles are stocked in extra fancy Maple. The SMR is my favorite. All of the rifles are extremely accurate.   

[P.W.Berkuta]

I'm 76 and don't shoot as much as I did a few years ago. I have both the Woodsrunner in 50 caliber and the Colonial in .54 caliber. I like the Woodsrunner as it is a bit handier. I think if I were to buy the Woodsrunner again I would get it in .54 caliber to reduce its weight a bit. I'm not a fan of the SM style rifles.

[Sherrell]

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

I've heard the following views expressed:

1.  a smaller caliber, more robust barrel (i.e., the .45) may be the more accurate choice for range shooting (with the obvious caveat that shooter skill trumps everything).
2.  a heavier gun is superior for offhand range shooting
3.  a lighter gun is superior for offhand range shooting
4.  given the fact the Woodsrunner is a “lighter” gun in all calibers than Jim’s Colonial, a large bore Woodsrunner may present unpleasant recoil characteristics for a day of offhand range shooting at, say, 100 yards.

I’m interested to hear your thoughts about these viewpoints I’ve seen articulated by various folks...

[AZshot]

Just BUY one....try it, and report back what YOU think.  This is getting old. You want us to comment on the comments of your comments?!

Those are my thoughts.  Paralysis by analysis can be a hinderance to the fact anyone can make anything work for them.

[rfd]

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

I've heard the following views expressed:

1.  a smaller caliber, more robust barrel (i.e., the .45) may be the more accurate choice for range shooting (with the obvious caveat that shooter skill trumps everything).
2.  a heavier gun is superior for offhand range shooting
3.  a lighter gun is superior for offhand range shooting
4.  given the fact the Woodsrunner is a “lighter” gun in all calibers than Jim’s Colonial, a large bore Woodsrunner may present unpleasant recoil characteristics for a day of offhand range shooting at, say, 100 yards.

I’m interested to hear your thoughts about these viewpoints I’ve seen articulated by various folks...

  Seriously dude - commit to one and just ENJOY. 

[alacran]

I could make a rifle using a 2x4 for a stock, hold it together with zip ties, epoxy the sights on, use a simple trigger pinned to the stock mortise the lock in with a router freehand. Flintlock or cap lock would not matter. Paint the barrel black and brown house paint for the stock. As long as the LOP is between 13 and 13 3/4 inches and it has a quality barrel, I would be able to learn to shoot it well.
Might just do that.

[rich pierce]

What’s best for one is not best for another. There is no “best” car, for example. Shaq and my wife (5’ tall) can’t drive the same car even if their preferences and intended uses were the same. Same for running shoes. Same for Kibler kits to fit 2 uses for one individual. Good advice has been given, based on experiences and preferences of individuals. This is the nature of any good forum. On any topic there will be diverse views shared. For some questions there is one answer. “How many ounces in a pound?”  Other questions involve several to hundreds of known and unknown variables.

[reddogge]

A lot depends on your age and strength. 35 years ago I was a deadly offhand shot with my SMR I built which weighs 7.5#. Typical straight barreled .50 rifle and muzzle heavy. I recently shouldered it at age 81 and I would have some problems shooting it offhand. I can shoot my .36 offhand at 6.5# with ease though.

[P.W.Berkuta]

One nice thing about any muzzle loading rifle is that you can load it with a small powder charge or a large powder charge to fit your needs.

[okawbow]

With age and bad shoulders, I have a hard time accurately handling my muzzle heavy offhand rifles anymore. My favorite was  a York style with a 48” barrel. I now shoot a 6 1/2# Bedford with a 44” .50 caliber swamped barrel. It handles like the Kibler smr in .45 cal. Easy to hold for a few seconds. I won our clubs mountain man shoot last week and hit every target on the woods walk. 🤠

[smart dog]

Hi,
So are you feeble in your 70s or are you healthy and strong?  Bad arm or shoulder?  Do you like to shoot those 100 yard targets with 90-100 grains of powder or do you go easier on yourself and @#$%/!! them out there with say 60 -70 grains?  The easiest answer is get the Woodsrunner.  It is very light and anybody no matter what body form can shoot it.  I have a lot of target shooting friends that use them and most like them well enough.  However, there are some very good target shooters who want more weight for off hand shooting.  They would be happier with the colonial, which is considerably heavier. 

dave 

[Leatherbark]

Colonial 54 or 58 is what you want. Not too light and not too heavy.  A 54 or 58 Colonial will be my next Kibler gun. I've had an SMR in 45 and a Woodsrunner in 45..............."Meh".  Good guns and shooters but they just didn't give me the "Fizz". Get you a Colonial in 54 or 58 and you'll feel like a "He Man".

[Daryl]

My feelings, too Dave. Taylor and I like some muzzle weight - slows down some of the waving around and shakes.
My .69 still holds well and has been since 1986, when Taylor built it. It's only 9 1/2 pounds and felt feather light and swung like a fine
double shotgun for me. Now, it just feels good to shoot. It's my favourite for trail walks now that I've pretty much quit hunting. 95gr. 2F
Schutzen for close targets and 165gr. for the longer shots.
I think that Colonial Rifle would be great, for a flint gun.

[Habu]

I use a .54 Colonial as a teaching rifle for the "intro to flintlocks" class I do.  I'd have to check to be certain, but I think about 150 students ranging in age from 8 to 91, have shot it.  Typically (depends a bit on class size) the students shoot ~10 shots, and we hang around after class and shoot til it gets dark or folks are tired.  No one has really had a problem with the weight of the rifle. 

One of my shooting partners had a problem with the length of the rifle.  (Thanks to the late unpleasantness in the Mid-East he's missing some limbs; on bad days he shoots from a chair.)  He bought a Woodsrunner (also .54), we did some re-working on the trigger etc to suit him, and he has managed it for as many as 80 shots in a day.

At the August shoot over in Iowegia--the First (Possibly-annual-but-maybe-not) Fall Invitational--someone sponsored a "Kibler match", where for $5 you got to shoot a Nightmare target at 50 yards; winner won a WR kit but all contestants had to shoot a Kibler rifle.  There were maybe 4 Kibler rifles there Friday, but some folks went home and got theirs to shoot the match on Saturday.  What with that, and with rifles being borrowed, I think the match had ~30 entries. 

What I found interesting was that a number of people who had Kiblers weren't otherwise shooting them as an offhand match rifle (I don't either--I think this was the first match I've shot that rifle in).  Many stated they preferred more muzzle weight.  On the other hand, the girl who won the SMR in the spring match said she'd been "lifting weights" because the rifle is heavy. 

But a good time was had by all, which is why we were there.   

[AZshot]

I agree, weight is subjective.  It's distribution for target shooting is also subjective.
We have a monthy muzzle loader match.  Targets are 35 yds or so, steels out to about 100 yds.  People shoot just about anything.  About 1/2 are flintlocks. 
I've shot the following:
Bruton Gillespie - 45 caliber - did well with it, came in 3rd I believe out of about 20 shooters, many lifelong shooters. It's long and about 7.5 lbs.
Kibler SMR - 40 caliber - I won 1st place with the flintlocks (they split the awards between flint or percussion).  It's long and at 7 lbs.
Mowry Ethan Allen - .36 caliber - shot better than the two others at the targets, worse at the steels.  Target score was again in the winning. It's short, light, perhaps 6 lbs.

My point is, as said earlier, just get a rifle and start shooting.  If by some strange reason you find you don't do well with it, trade it on another type.

[rfd]

Truthfully, it's all subjective.  Without experience, you really won't know what will work "best" for you.  That will cost money and time, no way around that.  Just guesstimate a choice, forge ahead and get in the game.