Southern Appalachian bag suggestions

[josephprivott]

::pops out of lurk mode::
Hello gang,
I've been going back through the threads a bit, but haven't really found a definitive answer... I live in western nc, and when I do portray a cracker (normally SE native) I would like to make a shooting pouch other than my native carry one. surfing the threads, it seems that a few different styles qualify as 's. appalachian' including generic rustic types, tapered bottoms, extended flaps, etc.

What are some resources where I can compare designs to properly develop a bag for my whitey stuff , or is it more a matter of finding pictures of originals in private/museum collections (as many native artifacts are)?

Thanks,
Joseph

[David G]

For starters there is a book by Jim Webb," Sketches of hunting pouches, powder horns and accoutrements of Southern Appalachia" that shows pouches and their construction method. The book is all drawings but the drawings are done very well and gives the viewer a  good representation of how the pouch would have actually looked. There are other books such as the one by Madison Grant " the Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" that has a good section of pictures of " Appalachain' pouches. From what your describing these two books would be a good starting point.

[G-Man]

This Richard Allen (Georgia) rifle in this site in the "Virutal Museum" has  a wonderful accompanying pouch and horn shown with it.  All in all, one of the finest surviving southern rifle, pouch and horn sets.

 http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3626.0

Jerry Noble's books also show a number of bags and horns.

Guy

[Ken G]

Hi Joseph.  Welcome to the board and congratulations on popping out of lurk mode.  Along with the suggested references and possibilities already given, you might consider a simple cloth bag as well.  This one is pillow ticking underneath all the grundge.  Oh, Mr. Webb's book is pretty good in my opinion. 

[Frank Barker]

Welcome Joseph...You are now hooked for life. That book of Jim Webb's comes highly recommended. I look at it over and over and still find something new that I didn't see before. Jim's drawings are very detailed and his little stories are very entertaining....... Frank

[josephprivott]

thanks or some great replies so far guys.
I should have specified that I am normally interpreting a civilian either during the 1750s or during the years of the Revolution, so while there are some neat grungy cloth bags, I do believe that leather would be more appropriate.

I don't think (prove me wrong here) that there was much difference between bag styles during these times/in that area, so perhaps having a 'rougher' bag and a nicer one would take care of me.

I have a barktanned groundhog hide ready to go...

what say y'all to making an iron buckle, or are fixed-length straps common enough to just do that? (I know the leather has a tendency to stretch

[dannybb55]

If the seasons vary much in your area make your strap adjust some to allow for layered clothing. I may have a buckle that I forged out of some spare chain link if you need one.

[Frank Barker]

Joseph......Jim Webb's book will show you what to do with that ground hog hide. That was a leather that was widely used here in Appalachia for pouches. I agree with Dannybb55, make it an adjustable strap for layered clothing...Frank

[James Rogers]

thanks or some great replies so far guys.
I should have specified that I am normally interpreting a civilian either during the 1750s

I would go with a simple belt pouch like the Lemuel Lyman pouch (5x7") , a partition divider also serving as a welt.
A similar design with a strap in 7 1/4 by 7 1/4" as shown in a recent Muzzle Blast article by Wallace Gussler should also do quite well.

[Curt Lyles]

Joe,

Here's some bags that I put together in the last couple months.  They are made out of bark tanned leather (squirrel, groundhog, and deer.)  Sometimes I line them with thin pigskin, fustion or hemp.  All of them are handsewn with linen thread, stained with walnut hulls and finished with a beeswax, neatsfoot oil, and castor oil concoction.  I prefer the bark tanned as opposed to the veg tanned cowhide - just my personal preference.  This type of pouch isn't for everyone, but it's what I like making.  Hope this gives you some more ideas.  Feel free to call if you want.

Curt Lyles
www.cdlyles.com
574-825-9853

[josephprivott]

Curt (I prefer 'Joseph' btw),
Thanks for sharing your images. I saw the squirrel pouch on the cla site and thought that was a neat idea. I made a cased fur-on pouch a couple of years ago, tanned with mayo. came out great! Unfortunately a friend put it in a alum bucket that was tainted with sulphur and the fur fell off so no more...

As I look out the window, I see a squirrel eating some birdseed.... he he heh.

nope, not for everyone, but certainly a believable choice for someone in my position. Bark gives an awesome look to the hide.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Joseph, Is your 1750-1785 civilian persona a backwoodsman/longhunter or a farmer or tradesman, or one of the landed gentry?  Seems it would make a big difference...

What gun??  Bartram was traipsing around GA, NC and FL in 1773...coming from his home in Philadelphia. He carried a fusil and mentions some others in his book about the trip.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Curt,

good to see you posting!!   

[eagle24]

Curt,

good to see you posting!!   

I'll 2nd that.  He needs to share his work on here more often.

[josephprivott]

Tim-
In my original post I used the phrase 'cracker' which to me for that time period means someone with enough to have a gun (no fun just walkin' around at events ), but by no means a person of notable station in life.

Ideally I will have a type g (when I find that rich dying relative ), or some other smoothie with similar lines

[josephprivott]

Turns out my college has a 1st and second edition copy (big difference between the two) of Webb's book. Good deal of information in there, though I do wish they were actual pictures :/ oh well! still helped a lot, so thanks to those that suggested it. Going back tomorrow to raid the various muzzleloading books they have in their 'Appalachian Collection'

[josephprivott]

Got a little bored and decided to make a pouch last night. Not the one that I was asking about per se, though I wouldn't mind carrying it for AWI stuff. Very simple at this point, since I didn't want to 'swiss army' it and make it overly fancy. No liner, no pockets. 7" wide 7.5" tall. Hand filed iron buckle, 1" strap. Trying to put some wear on it (should just USE the thing ) with oil, Snoseal, ballbearings and steelwool. Again, not trying to overdo it though, just give it a head start. It's commercial tan chocolate brown pigskin.

Went by the seat of my pants with the flap design, but I'm not displeased, and it's separate so I can fix it if I don't like it. I do want to ask you all though: what should I use as a closure? IE antler button, pewter, brass, etc.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Nice! and Nice buckle too!!

[josephprivott]

Thanks Tim I've worked on a couple others ones this weekend, I'll post some pix soon.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

BTW here are some real Florida Cracker Cowboys from a little later in history. Called crackers because of the bullwhips they used to control cattle.

[Carper]

I have a nice bag from Eden,NC. It is just plain leather with the flap folding over about one third. The flap was fringed but only one or two fringes remain. The old horn is attached to the strap which is some type of fabric. A plain horn measure is attached with a shoe string that has a metal furrel. How long has it been since you saw one of those. While this bag is very late, I would not be suprised if it not too far off the design of the older bags. I will try to get you some pictures of it that you could use for a pattern of some future works if you would like. The funny thing is about a week ago my nephew came by here and told me that he was saving up to buy his little boy a swing set come spring. I did'nt have any cash but gave him my N.C. stuff to sell. So he took the bag and a couple of horns, as well as a pretty nice McClellan saddle home with him!   Johnny

[josephprivott]

I'd love to see some pics of the bag Johnny, thanks. I can't beleive you handed that stuff over! Such is love for family...
Here are the pics, as promised. Should have used a diffuser, oh well.
A bag after some of Mr. Lyle's, and possibly my main one now. 7"w x 7.5" tall. The flap does not 'hip' out like the picture shows.

the back.



showing extra pocket

[josephprivott]

cont'd...
Lemuel Lyman style, per James' suggestion: 7w x 5d. interior divider/welt. no strap yet. leather knob button. Cowhide that was sanded down some. all the others have been pigskin.

[josephprivott]

Last one. This one I made before 'my' bag. It's basically the same, just scaled down. I could still use it, but it's just a little tight for me. 5w x 6d
Interior pocket, no strap yet. I may turn this one over to a young guy I know that is interested in longhunter (*spit*  ) stuff. He's 13, so it would be goo for him (for a little while at least)