Tennessee rifles forever!

[JTR]

With all your guys incessantly chattering about Tennessee rifles, I guess I got won over! 
Couple days ago my friend had this one for sale, so I brought it home!

It’s unsigned, but by looking through the limited references I have regarding these guns, it seems it might be either a Ambrose Lawing or a Charles Bean, or I don’t know, maybe someone else?

The gun is in pretty nice condition, though not perfect. The stock is a nice piece of curly maple, and it’s had a couple pieces of wood replaced on either side of the tang, and another over the front of the lock. It also has a crack in the wrist with a couple of pins put in there to support things. The ramrod is an older replacement also.

The lock is unmarked, but is a single bolt commercial one with a couple of turkey’s stamped/engraved on the back of it. There’s no half cock position either, so the hammer is either down, or full cocked. The set trigger sets this thing off with only about a half ounce of pressure!

The barrel is 7/8” across the flats, 36 cal, and about 39 1/2” long. There’s also a small wood plug about 5/8” ahead of the rear most barrel pin, so I expect that amount has been whacked off from the rear of the barrel at some point.

Whoever made the rifle did a very nice job on the iron furniture, and it has a nice old finish to it.

All in all, I’m tickled with my new gun,,, even if it ain’t a Kentucky!
I’ve included a couple of close-up pics, so maybe one of you knowledgeable guys will be able to give a good guess as to the maker.

Thanks for looking!
John

[LynnC]

A real beauty with great architecture!

Thanks for the detail pics........Lynn

[Ken G]

JTR,
Great looking Upper E. TN rifle!  Very representative of guns from this area.  IMHO, looks very much like Ambrose Lawings work to me.  Cheekpiece shape with 3 distinct lines, diamond shaped lockplate, trigger guard and trigger all are very similar to me.  I hate to ask since you have been so kind to post the pictures but any chance of getting a close up of the entry pipe and the inside of the patchbox? 
Thanks again for taking the time to post.  I hope this might go to the library.
Ken

[Bill of the 45th]

Lucky Bugger

Bill

[JTR]

Thanks guys, I'm feeling lucky allright!
I have to admit that when I first saw the rifle, I was immediately drawn to it!

Ken,
I'm recharging the camera batteries now, but will post the pics tomorrow. Do you want close-ups of any thing else?

Once it runs it's course here, I'll submit it to the library, hopefully with some better pictures.

John

[Ken G]

Thanks John.  If possible the comb of the buttplate.  The more I look the more I believe it is Ambrose or a sibling.  It's a great gun in my book.  Really nice! 
Ken

[eagle24]

Fantastic rifle!  Thanks for sharing pictures.  The nose of the comb and the tang look very much like Ambrose Lawing or someone who apprenticed under him.  I've only seen one of his rifles in person, the nose of the comb was a dead ringer for yours.

JTR, in your other post "Ambrose Lawing" you mentioned that the curly maple stock might be a negative for a Tennessee rifle, because so many were stocked in walnut.  IMO, that makes it a plus, not a minus.  Great rifle, whoever built it.

[Dancy]

Wow! That is one bad mountain rifle there! I was hoping you might bring that to the TN longrifle show in April, but might be a little far from CA.

Thanks for posting,

James

[Curt J]

A classic East Tennesseee rifle!  IMHO no Pennsylvania rifle has architecture as dramatic as this one.  It's a beauty!

[Robby]

I am putting together information on these guns for a project I'm planning, down the road. I asked this once before, perhaps it was overlooked. The comb and cheek rest look long to me, maybe just the way they photograph. Is this a typical trait for the Tennessee style rifle? I really enjoy the line of these guns, thank you for showing this one.
Robby

[Ken G]

Robby,
Most upper E. TN guns actually have a really short wrist.  Because the the upper part of stock above the cheek is concave shaped it tends to visually extend the wrist.  If you lay a ruler on the top of the comb to form a line it will extend above the breech of the barrel.  
As for the cheek rest.  There are as many variations as you can imagine.  Some short and some long.  Some thick and block shaped and some very thin and dainty or even rounded.  Some way back on the stock and some way forward up toward the wrist.  Some don't even have a cheekrest and then there are the Soddy guns where they extend from the wrist all the way to the buttplate but they are not real defined.  Depends on the builder and area the gun is from.  The very pronounced cheek piece with 3 beauty lines is one of the reasons I think it is a Lawing gun or sibling or apprentice of his. 


  

[G-Man]

What a fine, pristine looking Tennessee rifle.  I agree - looks like Unicoi County to me as well.

Guy

[Bill of the 45th]

Is that a replacement guard or were they casting them back then.  Just an observation.

Bill

[B.Barker]

JTR I agree it aint no Kentucky, just one of them old iron rifles. You should dispose of it quick befor it gives you a sickness. I can give you an address to send it to. All kidding aside nice rifle. I've been wanting one for some time now but can't find one I like and have the funds at the same time.

[G-Man]

I'm pretty sure that's a forged guard, custom made to the fit the hand-made triggers - note how the rear of the trigger plate tucks up against the rear post above the loop.

Real interesting construction too - looks like a 3 piece guard with the rear finial brazed or forge welded to the rear facing portion of the grip rail/loop section right there in front of the loop.  Have any of you guys more familiar with Lawing's work seen other guns by him with this feature?  

Check out how delicate the curl is on the loop too.

Guy

[Carper]

While a very nice rifle, I still don't think it was made by Ambrose Lawing or his son. A rifle like this is hard,hard to even date. While Lawing would certainly be able to make a rifle this nice my humble opinion is that the rifle was made 1900-1920 leaning more to the Beans, but then it looks too nice for the late Beans.  It is hard to get the feel of the gun from photos. I have seen more rifles marked Bean that I thouht someone else made than unmarked rifles that I thought a Bean made!!!  But some of the Lawing stamps were very faint. Have you looked really good?

[Ken G]

Carper,
Why do you think 1900-1920? Good to see you posting.  
Ken

[JTR]

Thank you guys for all the kind words! The more I handle this rifle and admire it, the more I think I’ll be looking for another one down the road!

So here’s another handfull of pictures, most showing detail shots.
All the pics are high resolution, so if you copy them to your hard drive hopefully zooming in they will still be clear. If they don’t zoom well, I’ll be happy to send full size pics to whoever might want them.

As I said earlier, I don’t have much reference material for these guns, and am not familiar with them at all.
I have a copy from a page from Jerry Nobles books, volume 2. Page 74 has a bio of Ambrose Lawing, and a picture of one of his rifles on page 115.
In John Rice Irwin’s book Guns and gunmaking tools of Southern Appalachia, he shows a Lawing rifle on page 21, and page 22 shows a Charles Bean rifle.
These two guns look like twins to one another. According to the Bean bio, he and Lawing lived only a couple of miles apart.
For those of you familiar with them, I wonder if there are any detail difference that would differentiate one maker from the other?
Carper, No stamp, no nothing on the barrel.

John

[WElliott]

This handsome rifle has the things that make us love Tennessee rifles - great architecture and iron mounts.  I agree with Ken and Guy that this is most likely a Unicoi County rifle.  If Ambrose Lawling made it, it was one of his best efforts, but the cheekpiece is certainly suggestive of his work.  Congratulations!
Wayne Elliott

[eagle24]

Something I have been paying attention to and notice on this rifle are whether the screws on original southern rifles were most likely indexed or not.  The screws on the toe plate of this rifle appear to have been indexed with the slots running lengthwise to the toe plate.  The screws on the buttplate tang appear to have been indexed crossways.  The front tang bolt is lined up longways to the tang, but the rear screw in the tang (or bolt) is not.  Same with the trigger guard screws, front one appears to be indexed lengthwise to the trigger guard, rear one is not.

My question for you guys that have seen a lot of original southern and Tennessee rifles.  Do you think it was more common for the screws to have been indexed on these rifles or not?  I'm sure some originally were and over the years got switched around, replaced, or through wear and shrinkage changed.

[JTR]

Thanks Wayne and the rest of you guys! I'm pleased to be able to share it with you!

GHall, The rear screw on the trigger guard has some ooops slipped screw driver marks on it, as does the rear one on the tang, so they've been taken out before.
Judging by the way the screws on the butt plate return are filed, I'd say they were originally crosswise.
The toe plate screws look untouched.

Whether some or most Southern guns are indexed, I haven't a clue.

John

[Carper]

JTR: Good luck on finding another rifle, you might look the rest of your life before you find another one as nice ! I'd have someone check that rifle out and it would be in the squirrel woods come fall. I know that you have posted pictures to death but I sure would like to an up close of the guard.  To answer Ken:  The thimbles and the way the edges on the ramrod inlet are so sharp, also the lock inlet , also looks like the toe and butt arent riveted together, nor the heel on the butt.  I would not be the least surprised to find the guard is one piece. But I could be way off on the date, thirty years either way, but I dont think the Lawings made it.  Just my guess     But it is still a great rifle no matter when or who made it.        Johnny

[JTR]

Carper,
Hmmm, interesting.
I assumed the TG and butt plate were forged, but didn't look all that hard at them.
So, should I be able to find a weld line where you'd expect the parts to be put together?
What else can I look for?
John 

[G-Man]

The triggerguard and buttplate look  like they are forged to me.  The seam on the two pieces of the buttplate looks to be tucked under the heel, which is what you would expect for this area, but with a smooth transition, not a noticeable notch on the edge when viewed from the side, like you see on some Soddy guns.  On the guard, if you look close you can see what looks like at least two pieces - isn't that a seam in front of the loop (right where the rear finial piece would meet the piece that forms the grip rail?  On really good forge work, it is often really hard to see evidence of rivets or pins.  Check out some of the Gillespie guards for example.

John - did Lawing typically rivet the toeplate and buttplate together?  Many of the east Tennessee rifles I have seen do not have that feature but I have not had the chance to handle many Lawing guns - I think I have only seen one or two up close and did not notice the toe plate

The minimal wear on this gun is unusual for a mountain rifle.  The barrel looks to have been cut a bit and moved back based on the filled pin holes in the stock, which is typical.

Guy

[Robby]

Thanks Ken. Another question, some of you fellows have talked of making the butt plate in two pieces, and joining them with copper rivets, or brazing. Which is more common and is there any evidence of how this one was done?
Robby