What to Build?

[Herb]

I have a Cabin Creek stock inletted for an L&R Classic Lock and a 42" B weight barrel.  I thought I'd make it into a .50 caliber, but don't know what to build.  Here are photos of the stock.



I can build anything that suits my fancy, and have most books with photos of original longrifles.  Can saw out and engrave any patchbox, and  carve passably well any original pattern I have photos of.  Figure to make it with a .50 caliber Rice barrel, but he also lists a .54 sm (whatever that is) B weight barrel, so I need to decide there.  This will be a spec gun.  Have no home for it.  Does anyone see a particular rifle in this stock?

[wvmtnman]

Personally I see a later Lancaster, maybe 1790 or so.  With the shape of the comb and the style lock, I would go in that direction.  I have never used a .50 caliber B weight.  I think that to be too light of a barrel for that caliber but that is a matter of personal choice. 
                                 Just my 2 cents, hope it helps, Brian

[Tommy Bruce]

How about a York somehting along the lines of George Shroyer?  If a .50 would make the barrel to light you could always go with a .45 cal.  The stock has a nice look to it.  What is the width of the butt plate area?

[Dave B]

I know it may be Cliche' but this is perfect for an Isaac Haines. I love his work.

[smallpatch]

From the width of the butt, I'd say an Early Lancaster.  Like Dave B said, maybe a Haines.  Or any other of the many Early Lancaster builders.

[Herb]

Thanks, folks.  Keep the ideas coming.  I just finished an early Lancaster from Pecatonica (See my post here, ".50 Early Lancaster Flintlock", posted 1/26/10).  This stock looks earlier to me because of the two inch wide butt.  I built Track's .40 Issac Haines 6 or 8 years ago and that is a really nice rifle.  Our crowd liked it well, in fact one traded me some barrels, locks, stocks, etc. for it.  I like lighter weight rifles, which is why I want the .50, if not even the .54.  The book "Gunsmiths of York County" by Whisker shows some George Shroyer guns.  Nice lines, and I like single triggers.  I have built 37 rifles by now, all copies of originals or custom based on them, and have built most of the ones I especially like.  I'm just not familiar with this stock style.  So I appreciate what others  see this stock can be made into.

[jwh1947]

I spent one second looking at your stock.  I immediately saw a nice Lancaster rifle in the future without any basic architectural things altered.

Incidentally, purely personal taste, but if I were limited to one Kentucky rifle for  hunting purposes, what fits me best is a Lancaster.  I find the old straight stock architecture to be the best shouldering pattern out there.  I get orders for Lehighs, but if I make a spec gun to offer on the table, I usually do Lancasters because they seem to sell better to the general public.  Just one builder's experiences.

[Ted Kramer]

If it was mine it'd become a slim early southern style .40 or .50 cal.

Is that a bark inclusion or a knot there near the heel?

I had an early Va. rifle with a 42" Colerain "B" wt. in .50 cal. and it was a very nicely balanced piece and was light to carry. Used it for many years. Wish I hadn't sold it now. I think the "B" wt. 42" in .54 would be getting a bit too much like conduit  pipe thickness at the skinny part.  .50 is as large as I'd go with the 42"  "B" wt., you can danged near bend them in your bare hands. Just my opinion.

Let us know what you decide to make with it.

Ted K.

[Michael]

I have to agree with Tommy, you can't go wrong with a York County Rifle.

Michael

[keweenaw]

That stock looks like it was run for an early Lancaster but you could push it to a early York style.  There is no problem what so ever in a 50 cal. in a B weight barrel unless you object to having a rifle that is under 8 lb., balances perfectly, is fun and easy to carry around and can be shot in a 50 shot match with reasonable loads without getting beat up due to the large wide buttplate appropriate for an early Lancaster or York.  My Schreyer is a 54 with a Getz "cut Dickert" 44" barrel that is only about 2 ounces heavier than a B barrel.  Great for shooting.  Looks at the J. Graef rifle in Kindig.  Great way to go with that stock.

Tom

[Herb]

Thanks for all the comments.  I'll check them out.  I got the wrong Creek- this stock is really from Stonewall Creek Outfitters, the old Vernon C. Davis Co. The stock is marked  "V.D. Lan. 42" B L&R Classic 3/8 RR."  It is that long, snakey wrist that throws me.  6 1/2" from end of barrel to start of comb nose, the wrist about 1 1/2" wide by 1" high.  Butt plates that fit are Track's E-62 Issac Haines, Beck-2, Bivins S, Beck-1, MA-115 (early pre-Revolutionary war style, and the best fit) and VA-1 (a rifle by F. Klette,Sevenburg,Culpepper County, Virginia).  The stock shape would best fit a John Armstrong, but I'm not drawn to his work. Jacob Earnest has similar stock shape.  Another goodie is J. Ferree, page 99 of Whisker's Arms Makers of West. Pa.   Also on p. 93 of "Gunsmiths of Lanc. Co."  Also on p.13 of "The LongRifles of Western Penn." by Rosenberger & Kaufmann.  I have built three of this one and really like it.  Yes, a knot, should finish out.  I welcome suggestions!

[jwh1947]

Learning opportunity:  Would someone with keen experience in both schools (that's not me) please take a moment to explain to our newcomers the major differences between York and Lancaster classic patterns. Thanks, Wayne 

[PIKELAKE]

JWH poses a good question about the differences between Lancaster and York county rifles. I would like to know myself. The differences, if there are any of consequence,seem to be subtle at best. It seems that the Sell family is thrown into one school or the other depending on who describes them. I don,t think that this too far off other original topic?

[J. Talbert]

I'm certainly not an expert, but my take on some of the original York's, is that they seen to be a little thicker thru the wrist, not quite as graceful as some of the Lancasters.  An example would be one of my favorite builders, Geo. Eister.  The areas I like least about his guns are the wrist and comb profiles.
On the other hand, most of the contemporary York pre-carves out there, I think are patterned after the classic Isaac Haines.  I see much less difference between that profile and the classic Lancaster.

What say others...

Jeff

[Herb]

That John Graeff on page 89 would work well.  It has more comb nose than the similar J. Dickert on page 86.  I think I just did a woman's rifle with this patch box. Used a 38" B Weight .50 Rice and a stock carved from a plank but based on a nice Stonewall Creek stock I had.  It weighed 7.5 pounds. Oh, yes, here it is.

Here is the patch box.  I had to rush this to get it done before my trip to Iowa. should have deepened the carving and engraving and gotten a darker finish. (Aint these closeup photos brutal!)


I expect Monica hunted deer with this rifle last December, along with her husband and his left handed .50 caplock John Fleeger I built him (page 46 of The Longrifles of Western Pennsylvania by Rosenberg and Kaufmann).

[Daryl]

Beautiful lines, Herb - it will be a good feeling rifle to shoot.

[deano]

I also vote for the Ferree that was mentioned earlier, classic lines and a good fit to shoot all day long. This stock would work good for that gun.

[Herb]

I'll search through all my books to find rifles that appeal to me, and then sort from there.  I'll order the .50 B 42" Rice barrel tomorrow.  That .54 sm must be smoothbore, not what I want now.  The Issac Haines I built had the 38" B weight .40 barrel, and I really liked that rifle.  Will examine his rifles more closely.  The Ferree is also very good, but I'll keep checking and still welcome suggestions.  I have another Stonewall Creek stock, the pattern for Monica's rifle (above), that I built with a late Ketland flintlock and a 38" B .50 Rice barrel.  That is the rifle I used in the Flint's Frolick II (Jan 3 post in Black Powder shooting this forum) pink dinosaur shoot (!)  (how many people can say that!)  That rifle is also undecided- I put on stain and one coat of finish so I could shoot a flint at the Flint's Frolick and not have the big boys kick sand in my face for shooting a caplock.  But it is not decorated with inlays, carving or patchbox-  also need to finish that one, but it is wonderful to shoot.  It weighs seven pounds!  I enjoy your suggestions, and appreciate your help.

[Herb]

I ordered a Golden Age 42" B weight .50 caliber barrel from Rice.  He did not have one in stock and suggested  Buckeye Barrels, but she also did not have one.  So I ordered it from Rice, radius groove barrel, take about 10 to 12 weeks for delivery.  Have an L&R Classic lock on hand.  Will order the other furniture to suit what I decide on, but I like the Issac Haines butt plate.  Right now I'm leaning to the J. Ferree, No. 77 in Rifles of Colonial America, Volume I.  Will keep you posted.