Ramelson two line checkering tool question

[Steeltrap]

The Mrs got me some checkering tools for Christmas. So, in addition to a cutting "knife" I now have a 90 degree pull cutter and the Ramelson two line 16lpi (I think it's 16).

So, I've been practicing (more like fooling around) using some scrap pieces. I've read a few articles and watched a few videos on this. At least I know to apply a few coats of finish before cutting. I think that a finish holds the wood fibers together to make clean cuts.

But my question is on this two line cutter. Ive measure it, pulled it across wood, pushed it across wood. What I can't figure out is which side is the "safe" or non-cutting side. It seems to me that both sides will cut.

That said it seems to me that once I cut a master line, then one side of the two line cutter will follow that line, while the other side will cut a new line. So, it doesn't matter if I cut starting from the master line...going to the right or the left. Am I right on that?

The tool is this one:  https://ramelson.com/product/2-line-carbide-tip-checkering-tool/?srsltid=AfmBOorzWgpuauZ2A8XpDS7u3ECtfpB5GoQQkm2hlVyWPNYUUjYG5wkG and I've done an extensive search to find the answer to my question.....but to no avail.

The other issue is how to I measure the spacing for the master lines? If they are  not the correct space apart on the top and bottom, I will end up with a "wonky" oops line in the pattern.

Anyway, thanks for any help.

Edit:  Here's a pic of my fooling around. Now, I didn't use a template.  I just found some templates to download....wish me luck!!

[Clowdis]

The double line tool is used to lay out the spaced lines as well as to deepen them. I generally used a right to left spacer tool, a left to right spacer tool, and a liner. You can get in trouble pretty quickly if the lines you're trying to deepen aren't spaced exactly like the two line cutter. I've always used spacers with one safe side to lay the lines out and a liner to cut them to the proper depth. Try using the double cutter to just lightly lay out the lines and then use the liner. For modern checkering a diamond ratio is 2.5 to 3 times longer than it is wide. For antique arms it can be almost anything. Biggest thing is to practice and then practice again before you try it on an actual stock. It takes a lot of patience and is very slow work.

[Adrie luke]

Steeltrap

This book is highly recommended.
I received it from Hans Muller, a former member of this forum.

https://www.amazon.com/Checkering-Carving-Gunstocks-Monty-Kennedy/dp/0811706303

[Adrie luke]

[Steeltrap]

Thanks Gents. All this is very helpful.

I did watch one video that stated something to the effect:  "Checkering is an easy way to ruin a perfectly good gunstock".  Words I don't take lightly.

[44-henry]

For me getting the first two lines laid down straight and at the right angle is key, than cutting them straight. I use masking tape to set these up and to follow the stock contours. I also have a jointer, which is just a very long single cutter that can be used to correct lines that have gone off course. Checkering can be fun and it is satisfying, but it takes a lot of practice to get good at it, most professionals now use power checkering units to save time but they are pricey.

[kutter]

The tool you show was made by Ullman Precision.
It looks like it cuts both Push&Pull (takaing an enlarged look at the teeth dsign.
They  make tools that do that plus dedicated Push(only and Pull(only) cutting heads.

I would email Ullman and show them what you bought. They can ID the style of cutting action the tool was made for for you.

sales@ullmanprecision.com

or call 8a-5p CST
(830) 627-9030

[Scota4570]

Those double cutters are not suitable for spacing lines, in my hands.  I am not sure how I would use something like that. 

I used and made these:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006460832?pid=364664

I used to do a lot of checkering. 

I need both right and left hand safe side cutters to lay out lines.  I make all my cutters cut on the pull.  I use Dymo Label tap to lay out master lines and to protect from over runs.  You can make very good checkering tools yourself.  At the prices asked for checkering tools I refuse to pay for cutters.  Get the Monte Kennedy book and practice.  Good checkering is a skill that takes a lot of dedication to learn.  Quality wood is necessary.  Soft open grain wood will not checker properly. 

[P.W.Berkuta]

I've used GunLine checkering tools and Dembart tools and prefer the Dembart tools. The Dembart and Gunline tools both have a spacing tool that has a cutter head with one side that cuts and the other side that has no teeth and that follows your master lines and the other side does the spacing. You can buy tools that space to the right or to the left - you will need both. I can't see how you can cut evenly spaced lines with the cutter that you have. To do good checkering you need to do a LOT of practice just like engraving. Also, a good pair of magnifying lenes are a BIG help whether you have young or old eyes! Make a checkering cradle to hold your work it is very helpful, but I don't think it will work on a ML long rifle - half stock - yes but not a ML long rifle unless you make a SPECIAL cradle. GOOD LUCK - you will need it - 

[Robert Roller]

YEARS ago I tried checkering and the walnut I had was too soft. No harm done because I tried the tool before the stock was contoured and I never tried it again.
Bob Roller

[Robert Roller]

If possible,try the checkering tool in the stock before it's contoured and see what it does.
Bob Roller

[Steeltrap]

The tool you show was made by Ullman Precision.
It looks like it cuts both Push&Pull (takaing an enlarged look at the teeth dsign.
They  make tools that do that plus dedicated Push(only and Pull(only) cutting heads.

I would email Ullman and show them what you bought. They can ID the style of cutting action the tool was made for for you.

sales@ullmanprecision.com

or call 8a-5p CST
(830) 627-9030

Edit:  I went back and read the description. You're right it is an Ullman two line tool. My apologies.

For me getting the first two lines laid down straight and at the right angle is key, than cutting them straight. I use masking tape to set these up and to follow the stock contours. I also have a jointer, which is just a very long single cutter that can be used to correct lines that have gone off course. Checkering can be fun and it is satisfying, but it takes a lot of practice to get good at it, most professionals now use power checkering units to save time but they are pricey.

Thanks. I also watched a video where the fellow stated blue painter's tape is a great help. As for power checkering tools.....likely not during my lifetime. (Unless I hit one of those billion dollar Lotto tickets)  So...likely never.

I've used GunLine checkering tools and Dembart tools and prefer the Dembart tools. The Dembart and Gunline tools both have a spacing tool that has a cutter head with one side that cuts and the other side that has no teeth and that follows your master lines and the other side does the spacing. You can buy tools that space to the right or to the left - you will need both. I can't see how you can cut evenly spaced lines with the cutter that you have. To do good checkering you need to do a LOT of practice just like engraving. Also, a good pair of magnifying lenes are a BIG help whether you have young or old eyes! Make a checkering cradle to hold your work it is very helpful, but I don't think it will work on a ML long rifle - half stock - yes but not a ML long rifle unless you make a SPECIAL cradle. GOOD LUCK - you will need it - 

Well, as my first attempt in the pic above shows, I didn't do all that bad for just a "quick 'n dirty" let's see how this works attempt. It gave me a little better understanding of what I did right, and more importantly what I did wrong.

I can now see that I have a two line cutter. Both sides cut. Once the master line is cut in, then a light pressure first few times with the double line cutter will give me the spacing. Then finish up with my single line 90-degree pull checkering tool.  Ive also downloaded and printed checkering patterns which make alignment much easier.

As for a cradle, I think I have a plan for one. I already own a Panavise that rotates 180 degrees at up to a 90 degree from center. So that can be the buttplate side. For holding the front.....I have a RR hole (obviously) drilled in the stock. I can mount a piece of scrap wood on that end and drill a RR size hole in it.....then just place a dowel rod thru the drilled piece into the RR hole. I can mount both on a proper length of plywood scrap and then hold the entire thing in my Patternmaker's vise.

If possible,try the checkering tool in the stock before it's contoured and see what it does.
Bob Roller

Thanks Bob. Actually, before the pic I posted above I tried out the tools on a piece of walnut that was unfinished. Then I watched a few video's and they all stated do NOT try to checker wood that doesn't have the finish on it. Apparently the finish acts sort of like "glue" to hold the wood fibers in place as the tool cuts. So, checkering raw wood will cause wood "ripping" instead of cutting. (Like a dull chisel)

[Daryl]

YEARS ago I tried checkering and the walnut I had was too soft. No harm done because I tried the tool before the stock was contoured and I never tried it again.
Bob Roller

LOL- been there, Bob. I gave my checkering tools to Taylor. He has mastered or at least come close to that
ability in checkering. Clicking twice on the pictures will magnify them.

[Steeltrap]

Giving these Checkering tools a workout. I made a cradle and for this project, it will more than suffice.

I'm only doing Early English Checkering, so perfect diamond tips are not required. My screwups seem to come when I attempt to work the cutting tool from left to right instead of right to left. I dunno if that's because I'm right handed, but sticking with R to L works out much better.

Now, my two line tool cuts with both lines. This is not like the DemBart cutters that have a left line, then a right line cutter.

So far I've learned:

---Print out the diamond pattern on paper. These patterns are found on the internet in PDF files for free.
---Don't use too much pressure to cut. Let the tool do the work. (Like fly fishing....let the rod do the work)
---Short strokes of about 1/2" keeps me outta trouble
---Don't do the pattern outline lines until last. If you do those first, the pattern may be off when you reach the other side.
---Don't cut the master lines too deep. That's easy to do with the initial single line cutter.  In my practice sessions I've cut them too deep and have this BIG line that looks odd. Live and learn!!

I'm sure there's other things that I haven't listed. But if you have an inclination to try it....I'd say why not!!

[Steeltrap]

[Daryl]

The pictures of the bag-grip Hawken butt I posted show flat-topped checketing.