Author Topic: Relief Carving  (Read 910 times)

Offline QuanLoi

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Relief Carving
« on: January 11, 2026, 01:30:44 AM »
After a somewhat long hiatus, I'm on my eleventh longrifle build.  My method of carving is to stab down into the pattern and relieve the ground up to the edge of the stab.  Although it's worked well for me in the past, (some years ago I took a nice ribbon at Dixons for carving), my method of carving tends to leave a sharp edge to the pattern.  What would be a good way to soften the edges of the carving?  Perhaps rubbing down with a Scotch Brite pad?  Some fine guns I've seen online doesn't exhibit such sharp edges.

Thanks

Offline P.Bigham

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2026, 01:59:48 AM »
Pictures of previous works ?   
" not all who wander are lost"

Offline QuanLoi

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2026, 03:44:37 AM »
 I generally don't photograph my rifles, but I posted this build on this forum

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49249.msg489278#msg489278

Offline whetrock

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2026, 04:06:24 AM »
Here's a screen shot from your linked post.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2026, 04:16:21 AM by whetrock »

Offline whetrock

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2026, 04:06:49 AM »
Nice rifle. Great use of the wire inlay with the carving design.

Some Lehigh rifles did have some scrolls carved in a very low version of "high relief" with flat surfaces, but edges softened a little. For example, there's a fine Rupp rifle with the lower scrolls having flat tops. Maybe that's all you are asking about?

If you are asking about shaping scrolls and other details in general, it's generally called "modeling". It's more than just sanding the edges. It's sculpting the relief elements of the carving. That includes rounding the edges, but it also involves additional sculpting, including giving gradual changes in the shape and height of the various parts of a C scroll, acanthus leaves, etc.

Instead of "stabbing in," some "line in" by going around the design with a V tool or a small veiner (U-shaped), then "lower" the wood in the open spaces. Others lower the background consistently first, establishing the background depth, and then clean up the edges around the design, which carver Chris Pye calls "setting in". (I think lining in has some advantages over stabbing in, as it gives you more opportunity for clean, smooth boundaries and micro-adjustments. But study of tool marks shows that old builders had their favorite techniques, and various techniques occur on old rifles.) Anyway, no matter which technique you use for boundaries, this is then followed by modeling. Modeling turns the flat surfaces into sculpted relief.

I've found these two free videos by Chris Pye to be extremely helpful. He shows modeling in both videos.

In this first video he "lowers" the background before "setting in" the design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89IjJlkV1uA


In this second one, he "lines in" the boundaries with a V tool and then does his lowering, and then the setting in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StcAWU0eVx0&t=1s


The depth of his carvings in these videos is a whole lot more than we want with rifles, but the concepts are similar. Also, these videos don't describe Rococo designs, but I think they are very helpful videos for explaining basic concepts. There are several good carving videos by gun builders that explain Rococo design and modeling/sculpting of the scrolls and leaves, but I don't know of any that are free on the web.

EDITED: see bold sentence above
« Last Edit: January 11, 2026, 10:04:29 PM by whetrock »

Offline whetrock

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2026, 10:12:27 PM »
Rupp



Offline QuanLoi

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2026, 01:57:31 AM »
Thanks for the reply. Beautiful detail on that Rupp! I watched both videos that you posted and for the past hour I’ve been adding some detail and bringing down the background around my carving. I’ve more to do but I think I’m going to sleep on it for awhile. Thanks again.


Offline whetrock

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2026, 06:40:52 PM »
I like that design you have there.

I like to use very shallow gouges for lowering, rather than chisels. By very shallow I mean a #3 or #4 sweep. They are expensive to buy, but in a pinch you can make one by regrinding a cheaper flat chisel. The benefit to a gouge for this purpose is that the corners don’t dig in. You can then scrape off the “peaks” with a scraper. Cutting the peaks off with a flat chisel will work if the surface is flat, but it won’t work well if the surface is dished at all, as the flat chisel can’t handle a dished surface. But gouges and scrapers can handle almost anything.





Offline whetrock

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2026, 07:06:46 PM »
Another tip that may be helpful to you is that your tools should be "sticky sharp". That's sharp enough that when you lightly touch the edge of the tool to a fingernail, it feels like it sticks to the nail, rather than sliding off. Of course it's not actually sticky. It sticks because is cutting into the nail at a microscopic scale, usually not perceptible to the naked eye. If the tool slides on your thumbnail, then it's not sharp enough.

I also go for as low an angle as the tool can support. Many tools come at 25-30 degrees, which is more what you need for heavy tool like a carpentry chisel. But for a carving chisel that will be pushed by hand, you can usually go for a more shallow angle. Some chisels and gouges can handle 20-22 degrees provided they are used carefully, but the angle you need will also depend on what you are cutting. These are estimates. It's hard to actually measure these angles on small tools. I basically sharpen a new tool to the bevel I like, and if it can't handle that bevel on a test piece of wood, then I back off a little to a slightly steeper angle and try again.

When sharpening, I go to 1200 grit on a diamond plate, then polish that on a translucent Arkansas stone.  I have a couple of translucent Arkansas slip stones for the gouges, but some super fine sandpaper works as well (wet-dry paper designed for autobody paint, wrapped around a dowel). I then strop with white polishing stick compound. For flat chisels I strop on printer paper taped down to a hard flat surface. For gouges, I use a piece of belt leather, also fixed to a hard flat surface. The paper gives a flat bevel, which I like for inletting. The leather gives a rounded micro bevel, which is good for carving.  The leather can be folded for stropping the inside of a shallow gouge. 

In my experience, it works best for these stropping surfaces to be flat at bench height. (I sharpen at vise height and strop at bench height.) That height allows me to better use my knuckles as the guide to hold the angle where I want it. I grip the tool in my dominant hand and let my knuckles slide across the strop, holding the tool at the angle I want. I use my other hand to press the tip into the strop material as needed. In my case, I just tape the paper or leather to the top of an anvil I have in the shop, but a piece of 16g sheet steel laying on the bench top would work just the same.

The most common options for gouges edges are a straight edge or a thumbnail edge. I like the thumbnail edge for flat work. It works well in a shearing stroke, which involves moving the gouge at an angle or in an arc as it is pushed forward, rather than just pushing straight forward. And the thumbnail shape can get into curved areas against a carved border—areas that a straight edged gouge can’t reach.

This photo shows a couple of antique gouges and a modern one. One antique has a straight edge. The other has a shallow thumbnail. (One of these started life as a flat chisel and some old dude turned it into a #3 sweep with a shallow thumbnail long before I bought it and reconditioned it.) The third is a modern chisel that I reground into a shallow gouge decades ago. I couldn’t afford better tools then and that one did the job. I'm showing these to say that you can expand your tool kit to include some shallow gouges without having to spend a lot of money.







Sorry the posts are so long. I hope they are helpful.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2026, 09:12:38 PM by whetrock »

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2026, 08:30:34 PM »
The background should be sliced away.  It shouldn't be torn or have tool marks from the corner of tools.  My biggest suggestion would be to work in broader larger areas and concentrate on making clean cuts.  If cuts aren't clean, change your approach and figure out a way to make clean cuts.  Don't keep going with something that isn't the best approach.  I also think it's often best to work from an area away from your design and carve towards the element.  This can help minimize damage to your relief element. 

Jim


Offline QuanLoi

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2026, 05:03:13 AM »
And that's why I come to this forum when I have a question.  I haven't built many guns but over the years I occasionally feel the urge to build a flintlock.  And whenever I have a question, this forum has been an invaluable asset. 

Thanks to all...

Offline LynnC

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2026, 08:16:07 AM »
Acer did some beautiful carving. The entire Tutorial forum is a great resource that I have learned from many a time.
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson.

It is sad that some of us can longer talk to each other….

Online bluenoser

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2026, 04:45:04 PM »
Another excellent post by whetrock.
I use leather and pine for stropping and cut channels corresponding to the inside and outside arcs of the gouge prior to applying compound and stropping.  Never thought of using printer paper for stropping flat chisels and will give it a try.
Not nearly as skilled or experienced as many here when it comes to carving, but have developed a preference for RH and LH skew chisels for much of the background removal - especially up close to the element.  Pivot them against a finger.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2026, 05:08:36 PM »
Back to the topic of trying to soften the top edges of stabbed-in carving. A fair number of Germanic guns have sharp edges on the carving, especially around the tang. I don’t like it. It’s also rare on American guns, so I get why you want to soften the top edges.

For stabbing I find I have to watch the grain very carefully else when stabbing with the grain I can easily go deeper than across the grain. Also I find it takes a lot of care to not have the line look like it was cut with pinking shears (on a minute scale). Also when using a variety of chisels and small gouges, narrow and wide, obviously the narrow ones will stab deeper when using the same force. So it takes be a lot of practice using all the tools I intend to use in a design. I only build 2-3 guns a year do am not carving every week. I don’t expect to be able to execute my design perfectly on the first try. So I carve the design on scrap wood first and get the bugs out there. A piece of firewood will do. Saw and plane and scrape and sand to the right contours and have at it.

Also if you’re dedicated to stabbing, there’s no rule I obey that says the stabbed line has to be perfectly vertical.  It can be slanted slightly from the top to the base and give you a head start on rounding the top edge.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Relief Carving
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2026, 05:49:55 PM »
Nothing wrong with scrubbing the carving with some scotchbrite or some worn out sandpaper to soften the edges.  With skill, you can also bevel or soften the edges with a knife or skew chisel used as a knife.  Care must be taken to watch grain direction and compensate for this.

With all this said, I wouldn't concern myself with this at this stage.  Focus on improving techniques for cleaner outline and background removal.