Pitfalls

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Too many to mention!!!    but I am sure relieved to see all my goofs being written about by others.  

Woodstock, I think your no 2 is just a matter of fitting...... now if whoever provided the precarve also provided the trigger and didn't tell you how to fit it to the stock...shame on him.  I assume you got it working ok?

[Woodstock]

Tim,
It is fixed and working good. The folks I got it from are great. Always willing to help and very knowledgeable.  That was my point on #2. Check it before you do it and think it through. It was partly my fault. This stock does not have a lot of wiggle room. It is shaped real close to the finished product. I inlet the trigger plate just below the wood so I could sand it all down together for a good fit. No more than a 1/16 (probably less) below the surface of the stock. That 1/16 made the difference. I had no idea the stock was cut that exact. Had I known, I would have left the trigger flush or a little high and filed the plate to the wood instead of the wood to the plate. Live and learn.   

[longcruise]

A big pitfall to me is too thick of a web that makes them get a little slab sided.

northmn,  I tend to go the other way on this.  Ended up way to thin on a pistol and have the underlug projecting into the ramrod channel.  Made the underlug as small as possible but it still came through.  Had to file the underlug to match the channel!

[t.l.a.r. eng]

[/quote]

This may be the best one yet.  Amazing how those sanding marks that were not there grow on a stock after a couple of days.
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Had I not seen this first hand, wouldn't have beleived it, but it seems to be true. Only fix is to remove the finish and sand some more.

[Eric Krewson]

Yep, sanding is a biggie. I sure wish I had spent a couple more days sanding  on my first build. I also wish I had paid a little more attention on getting my wrist rounded and getting a smooth transition from my butt plate  to the nose of my comb, I have a little hump about halfway down on the lock side.

Here is another one. When it is time to cut the stock blank to width at the lock panels keep away from a bandsaw. I mis-measured and have the side plate lock panel about an 1/8" narrower than the lock side. I am the only one who will notice it but I got carried away with my bandsaw.

Measure twice cut once. Before I finished my rifle I would measure a half a dozen times just to make sure I had it right. Sure made the rifle come out nice considering how many times I screwed up initially.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Eric,  According to what I read in Peter Alexander's Gunsmith of Grenville County it is almost always true on originals that the side panel is thinner than the lock panel.... helps get rid of the unsightly wood at the breech so that the wood can come cloer to the same line as your oblique flat.  You are just better than your thought...

[Artificer]

Just wanted to say a huge thanks to everyone who posted.  You all passed along a whole lot of great information.  This is the kind of info I look for as I'm screwing up my courage to finally assemble a complete rifle.

Gus

[gusd]

sz
Both!!!

[Stone River]

Just wanted to say thanks as well.  An excellent thread, keep them coming it's a huge help!

Stone R

[Bill-52]

My thanks as well.  I thought I was sufficiently prepared for building my first rifle by reading Dixon's, Shumway's and Alexander's books.  Now I realize that the real learning starts when the wood chips start to fly.  Big difference between building and avoiding problems.

FWIW, Pete G, my grandfather told me he always poured the water in his drinks first.  That way, the whiskey improved the taste.....

Bill

[J. Talbert]

Lest someone else mentioned it and I overlooked it...

A common beginners' error is insufficient distance between the first ramrod pipe and the nose cap.  This space should be adequate to allow a graceful transition from the ramrod molding into the nosecap, such that the wood surface and the nosecap are in the same plane. 
You don't want the nose cap to appear as though it's crammed on the end, with wood bulging out from under it.

Jeff

[Dave B]

If you are going to use a bedding compound in the barrel channel be darn sure you remove all under cuts from your tenons where they may extend past the flat. Next make sure that you have plenty of parting agent on the barrel its self. Only one coat of car wax is not adequate .

Jack Rouse showed me the best yet way to do it using Surran wrap on the barrel. I filled my wedge tenons with clay to keep them from getting caught should the wrap fail at these points.

[KNeilson]

 I learned a real big one today about how weak a thin forestock is...My new rifle (stock only)was hanging from the ceiling on a hook through the front ramrod pipe after cleaning. I cleaned the barrel, then the lock, kinda forgot about the stock hanging there. On one of the trips into the house for refreshments I thought "what a nice day, I`ll open the big door" So with beverage in hand I slid the door open forgetting the stock. The rear of the door hit it and knocked it off the hook, straight downwards drop onto the toe plate. Split a chunk out of the toe where the bottom butt plate screw had weakened it, then fell over sideways snapping the forestock in two     , oh well, some nice clean well fitting joints to glue up.... still contemplating my idiocy.......... Kerry

OK, here we are a few days later. My anger has subsided, still feel pretty stupid. I feel like the new kid standing in front of the new school in his new underwear... These are the most Un-flattering shots I could take regarding light and shading. From a few feet away you can barely notice anything...     ... Kerry

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Ouch!!!  Sorry that happened Kerry.     You are getting into the repair and restoration work kinda fast here................

Be sure to take pics along the way and share progress here.    I know there are severtal folks here who can give you good guidance so don't be afraid to ask.......... somehow I don't think you are the first to have to make these repairs.

[Captchee]

Split a chunk out of the toe where the bottom butt plate screw had weakened it

been there .  but  i also added  the fact that the customer was standing in the shop when it happened
 talk about  a GDI !!!!!

 i would also add  to the list .
 if you build for people , its very hard to separate what needs to be done and what the customer wants .
 i know with myself ,  that’s  BIG .
   as such  i run into  what others here have said about  the wrong parts for the  intended rifle …
 Thus when someone later looks at the piece  and is knowledgeable enough to see whats wrong .  The customer is never going to mention THEY requested that specific side plate, but pate or TG .. The result is you are the one with egg on your face .

 I would agree with those mystery sanding marks .
 I sometimes  think I have “little people ‘ living in my shop  who enjoy coming out at night  LMAO 

[Cody Tetachuk]

This is how I put together a muzzleloading rifle. There are other ways, but I have found that if a new builder follows this order, that less mistakes will be made. You will eliminate some of the opportunities to make mistakes, without even knowing that you did.


For those building from "kits" you still follow the steps, but just skip the ones that don't apply.

1. Trace out your barrel on a large piece of paper.

2. Trace out the lock plate over the breach end of the barrel. Note that you will often have to tip the lock plate slightly downward in the back, so it will follow the line of the wrist later

3. Mark where the sear bar will go and make a pencil line downward at that point on the paper

4. Trace a line under the barrel 3/16" of an inch at both the muzzle and the breach. This is the top of your rod hole and channel, come down from that line 5/16, 3/8 or 7/16 to outline your rod. (depending on how big around your ramrod is going to be)

5. Come down about another 7/16" from the bottom of the rod tracing and draw in your bottom line of the hand rail section. It will be various lengths depending on what style of gun you are making. If for example, you are making a Lancaster/ York style rifle, you'd come forward from the breach about 11" + or - some, to look right for longer or shorter barrels.
At the end of your "hand rail" section, dogleg the line sharply up, and draw it right down the middle of the rod you drew. This long line will be the underside of your forestock. It is "cutting the rod in half" so that it makes a channel where the rod will rest.

6. Draw a line 3/16" over the top of the barrel to represent the line of sight (LOS).

7. Draw a line down from the Line of Sight (LOS) that will be as long as your Length of Pull. (The length of pull is the distance from the place on your trigger finger where you press the trigger, to the inside of your elbow joint when your arm is bent 90 degrees. ) Let's say it was 13 1/2" to illustrate. At this point, draw in all the lines of your butt stock, but make sure that butt will be 13 1/2" long. Trace the buttplate onto the paper, so the lines will come to the correct toe and heel of that buttplate. Next you will draw in the drop you want for your own gun, both at the heel and at the comb. Take your time with this, and get the shape you really want.

8 Draw a radiused line down from the top edge of the breach of the barrel to the center of the barrel, and then draw that line all the way out to the end of the barrel, so the line goes right down the middle of the barrel. This will be the top edge of your fore stock.
At this point take a red pen or pencil, and draw over the actual stock lines you have made. That way you don't confuse your eye later when you saw, and cut the wrong line.

9. Put glue on your stock blank and glue down this tracing. Be sure the top edge of the stock to straight. When the glue is dry (I use spray on adhesive like that used for counter tops) cut out your stock on a bandsaw. Go slow and make the cuts precise.

10. Next, unbreach your barrel and place the barrel on top of the stock. You will offset the breach a little if you want cast off. (I can't say how much, because I don't know your measurements.) Inlet the breach end of the barrel until it is down on the bottom flat, and back against the "breaching shoulder" of the stock. Clamp the muzzle down where you want it. Now trace a line STRAIGHT down from each side of the barrel so that you get a 1 to 1 tracing of the width of the barrel on the top of the stock. That is your outmost line when you are inletting the barrel.
Now inlet your barrel so it is to the halfway point, all the way down it's length, Be very careful, and go as slow as you need to, to do a good job with it. If you don't get a good fit you will have problems later. It must not be super tight, but the barrel should not fall out either. I like to have to squeeze a barrel into it's channel with my hands, but I want to have to squeeze hard to get it in. Make VERY sure the depth is correct at all points if you are using a swamped barrel, because you can warp them easily if you don't!

11. When You are done inletting the barrel, re-install the breach plug, and inlet it into the wood. Make SURE it's all the way back and all the way down when you are finished. You will have to bend the tang to suit the stock shape, They are not hard, so you can bend them cold.

12. Next install your underlugs. When you have all 3 (or 4 in some guns) installed, inlet them into the wood. Be sure they are a little "loose" fore and aft, so the stock doesn't bind on them in wet and dry weather, as the stock grows a bit and shrinks a bit. You only need about .050" of "looseness" When all are inlet, measure the depth of the lugs with a caliper and mark for the pins. Drill the holes for the pins (or wedges in some cases) HALFWAY THROUGH so you see the drill come out inside the inlets you just cut. Re-install the barrel and clamp it down, and then drill the rest of the way through.

13. Now take out the barrel and drill a 1/16" hole through the bottom of the barrel channel, just forward of the "dog-leg" where the entry pipe will go. Re-install the barrel and draw a line from that hole to the end of the forestock directly under the barrel. This is the center of your rod channel. Cut the rod channel until it is at the half diameter of your rod, and dead straight. You will usually cut deep enough to expose the bottom of the tabs of the underlugs.
When the channel is done, lay a rod drill into the channel and drill your rod hole until it is as deep as the back end of the barrel.

14. Install your nose cap. Work the wood down about 3/4" behind it and file everything to the shape you want. Then sand and polish the wood and metal together until it is totally finished. You will not have to do "finish work" later.
 
 
15. File and shape your buttplate. Polish it to a finished stage on the return. Next install the butt plate. You will set it on left or right of center to get your "cast off", if you want any.
Once the butt is on, shape the wood down and form the final edges of the lock panels and the shape of the butt stock. Use a straight edge to take all the "humps" out of things, so that everything looks as you want it to look. Lastly polish the sole of the buttplate to a finished stage.

 
16. Plane or sand down the lock side of the stock where the lock will go, until the thickness is the same as the thickness of the bolster of the lock. Then do the same thing on the off side. Take pains with this! You need to be sure the lock panels are not tilted or out of parellel with the side flat of the barrel. They must be square with the side flats, leave a little wood to dress down later.

17. Now inlet your lock plate. Take it down until the bolster is tight against the barrel.

18. Now sand the wood down carefully until the lock is setting at it's final depth. You will sand this down with fine paper so you get the wood edges around the lock to a 100% finished stage, ready for stain.

19. Now, plane and sand down the off side of the lock area, so it's the same thickness as the lock side, and sanded down to about 120 grit. When that's done, inlet your side plate. When it's in, drill your lock bolt holes and install them. Then polish the side plate until it is 100% finished.

20. Now sand the "off side" down to a finished surface, ready for stain.

21. Now inlet all the "lock guts" and your flash hole liner.

22. Next inlet the entry pipe. Make sure the rod will pass through it and that everything is aligned.

23. Now shape the forestock and the hand rail. Take the time to do it right, and take it all down to about 120 grit.
 
NOTE:  If you are going to use forestock inlays, this is the time to do them, but read the next step first.  The inalys have to work with the long forestock moldings, not against them.  So make sure the inlays will not be a problem in relation to your long forestock moldings.  In some cases you may want to do the next step before you inlet your inlays.  Think before you cut!

24. Now cut the long moldings in the forestock. They will run into the carving. You will go around the entry pipe, so cut then as you like, but remember they are part of the carving so do them carefully.

25. Cut the lock moldings around the lock panels. Make them as good as you can, and then finish all the stock from the wrist to the muzzle down to 400 grit.

26. Draw and cut your entry pipe carvings at this point. You are doing the "final work" at this point, so do it carefully and take your time.

27. Cut your lower butt moldings. When you have them cut, sand the buttstock down to 120 grit. Sand the toe line (bottom of the stock from butt plate to hand rail) to 400 grit.

28. Install the toe plate at this point. Then install your triggers and shape the trigger bar as necessary. Finish the wood and metal around the triggers until they are ready for stain.

29. Install your Front sight.

30. Do all file work and polish on your trigger guard. Then inlet it into your stock, and pin

31. Inlet the patch box. When it is in, and the catch is made and finished,  sand wood and metal together to a point it is 100% finished.   Inlet any cheek piece inlays you have now too.
 
32.Install your rear sight so that the edge of your hand touches it comfortably when the rifle is carries at it's balance point.

33. Wet the stock with water and let it dray. Use 400 grit "wet or dry" to whisker it off. Do this about 4 times.

34. Do the remaining carvings behind the breach tang, around the wrist, and behind the cheek piece. Finish them 100%.

35. Stain.

36. Finish all the wood.

37. Sight in the rifle. You will have to do some drifting and filing here, so work up an accurate load first, and then do the final adjustments.

38. Strip the rifle down and polish and prepare all your steel. If you followed my directions, all the brass is already done. When the steel's ready, brown or blue it, or in many cases the iron was just left bright. It is your choice.

39. Engrave.

40. Put the rifle back together after the metal finish is done, and you are ready to go hunting.

Good hunting and shooting
Steve

Well there's my problem right there, I can only count to 11 

[Dphariss]

I've been sitting by the fire with a glass of icewater (with a generous splash of whiskey to kill the taste) and the thought occurred to me that although I've seen numerous instruction on the proper way to build a rifle,  I don't think I've ever really seen a list of pitfalls to avoid. Perusal of RCA and the Kindig book both demonstrate page after page of what we now might consider mistakes. Should we copy these in order to be correct or should we use these examples to build a better gun than the oldtime smiths used to produce? I personally think that although some guns were built as a work of art, just as some of the period furniture, most guns as well as the furniture were built as a utilitarian object with a certain amount of embellishment in order to produce a more marketable product. Whether this really means anything to the examples that we reproduce I don't really know, but in the spirit of being the best we can there are certain things that I try to avoid (not that I always do). The things that I seem to notice the most are:
1.   Lock panels that are too wide.
2.   Sideplates do not fit with the design of the panel.
3.   Buttplates not aligned with the centerline of the stock.
4.   Forstock  has too much wood left.

What can the members here add to that list?

As an additional thought..although not a problem of mine, are some of the “perfect” hobbyist guns really improper by virtue of the fact of being too good?

First we have no real idea who stocked some of these guns. They could be restocks if signed. They might be stocked by people with little or no training who were stocking muskets during the Revolution and decided to carry on afterwards even though they lacked the necessary skills or even the tools.
Then we have the spectre of wood that was not fully cured causing problems.
The idea that modern guns are too good is complete BS.
I am not going to degrade my work just because there are sloppily made originals. I don't like ugly guns.
Even guns we are pretty sure are as they were originally stocked we have no idea who may have "reworked" the gun at some later date to make the finish "better", add carving, change the patch box, add wire work, convert originally percussion guns to flint to make them worth more etc. We have no idea if the lock and perhaps other parts may have been changed during its service life or at some point in the 19th or 20th century perhaps by the local blacksmith.
Then we have wood damage/rot and wear and tear.
Not all makers are created equal then or now.
I have spent too many years working on my skills to decide that I should now make guns with sloppy inletting crappy lines and scrolls in the carving with flat spots just because there are poorly designed and executed originals that for all we know where stocked in 1920.
Sloppy work is sloppy work no matter WHEN its done.

In years past I have taken 3-4 guns that I made in the 60s and used for some time, apart and run the stocks through the wood stove because I was tired of looking at them.

Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If you are going to build a rifle for someone other than yourself, listen to what they say they want, write it down, and refer to it often.

About 1980 I received an order for a JJ Henry trade rifle.  I researched the rifle as best I could, and we exchanged data by mail.  I had a very good reference collection, and so set to work.  I finished the rifle up in time for our annual rendezvous, and sure enough, my buddy came to pick up his new rifle.  I proudly handed it to him, and he smiled and turned it over and over for several minutes without saying anything.  Then he said it was perfect - exactly what he expected, but he needed it in left hand.  I laughed because I thought he was joking, but he was not.  The great revelation then occurred to me - he shoots left handed, and I knew that - have always known that.  We laughed about it, I refunded his money, and he gave me a beautiful elk skin scabbard he'd made to protect it.  Happily I sold the rifle that same spring.

[California Kid]

Wow, that's a great story. I'm glad it turned out so well. That could have been a nightmare. Did you end up making him a left handed rifle, or was he so scared that he thought you might build it upside down the next time?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The rifle was supposed to be an anniversary gift from his wife, and she and I did most of the talking, so that may be how I missed that important little detail.  No, he did not reorder - can't think why not?  We have always been good friends through the years, and now he has passed. 

[Dphariss]

The rifle was supposed to be an anniversary gift from his wife, and she and I did most of the talking, so that may be how I missed that important little detail.  No, he did not reorder - can't think why not?  We have always been good friends through the years, and now he has passed. 

This is a classic "whack your head on the door frame" moment.

Dan

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I learned a real big one today about how weak a thin forestock is...My new rifle (stock only)was hanging from the ceiling on a hook through the front ramrod pipe after cleaning. I cleaned the barrel, then the lock, kinda forgot about the stock hanging there. On one of the trips into the house for refreshments I thought "what a nice day, I`ll open the big door" So with beverage in hand I slid the door open forgetting the stock. The rear of the door hit it and knocked it off the hook, straight downwards drop onto the toe plate. Split a chunk out of the toe where the bottom butt plate screw had weakened it, then fell over sideways snapping the forestock in two    , oh well, some nice clean well fitting joints to glue up.... still contemplating my idiocy.......... Kerry

OK, here we are a few days later. My anger has subsided, still feel pretty stupid. I feel like the new kid standing in front of the new school in his new underwear... These are the most Un-flattering shots I could take regarding light and shading. From a few feet away you can barely notice anything...     ... Kerry

Live and learn right??  What exactly did you do to make the repair??

[KNeilson]

 First thing I did was try the bits together to check the fit, which was ok `cept for a small bit ahead of the RH inlay. I know it was weakened there a bit from the inlay pins, thought I had taken care of this already. Satisfied that I could glue it, I stretched saran wrap around the barrel being careful to get out the wrinkles. I then put the barrel in the rear half of the stock, and installed the tang bolt and pins. I used a polyurethane glue, one I have used for other tasks in the past and am comfortable with. This I rubbed into each side of the joint, making sure I had good coverage and also removing the excess. I then put the front half of the stock to the rear forcing the joint together, wiped of a bit more excess glue, and another layer of Saran wrap.. I then put a new pencil along each side of the stock where it meets the barrel alondside the split, a short bit of 3/8 CR in the ramrod groove, and stretched and wrapped the whole thing up with electrical tape. On the toe, same procedure as above, but this joint was easier to hold together with an adjustable woodworkers clamp assisting the toeplate screw. Sure gonna try to avoid going thru this again...........  Kerry

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

We will just send all our broken ones to you!!

Tape works good. Surgical tubing is a good clamp too......

I broke one and repaierd it by bedding the barrel with acraglass in that area....I put some in the actual break as well,,,,, its strong now...

[KNeilson]

Thx for noticing,

Tape works good. Surgical tubing is a good clamp too......

I broke one and repaierd it by bedding the barrel with acraglass in that area....I put some in the actual break as well,,,,, its strong now...

Ive read about acraglass now in quite a few posts. Never heard of it before, can any of the Canadian guys tell me a comparable product or where to buy acraglass here? Seems to be an adhesive/filler of choice......  Kerry