Author Topic: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems  (Read 6380 times)

Offline smallpatch

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Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« on: February 14, 2010, 08:44:38 AM »
OK,
I'm getting ready to finish a fullstock English rifle.

I knew these things were here, and I'm trying to figure out if I should just leave them for character, or try to repair.

After seeing what Mr Brooks can do with worm holes, I thought I'd put this out there.

Tell me what you think.  Please don't say Photoshop

Left side of the buttstock...




Toe of the buttstock....
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 08:46:22 AM by smallpatch »
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 08:49:12 AM »
I'm not Mike or Acer, but I would suggest filling them with colored epoxy and being done with them.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2010, 08:56:59 AM »
I fill holes like that with stained AcraGlas.  I do not try to hide them...just fuill them dark and proceed.  They'll look like solid knots.  Another approach is to inlet pieces of walnut to replace the naughty (get it) wood.
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Offline rsells

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2010, 09:08:30 AM »
I agree with the other folks.  I have run into this problem several times when I use walnut with figure.  I use Brownell's Accuraglass and stain to best match the color and fill in the cavity.  I have had the color off a bit a couple of times and have blended small amounts of paint to put on top of the repair to blend it in.  When doing this I build up a surface finish on top of the paint for a small distance around the repair and feather it in with steel wool and fine sand paper then apply my standard semi-gloss finish on top.  It is a bummer and gets on you before you know it.  I am building a rifle now that has dark stripes running with the grain.  I roughed in the profile of the butt this morning and have a small crack or wind check running along the side of one of the dark lines for about three inches.  I am going to have to repair it in the near future!  Makes me want to use plain dense wood only.
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Offline Lucky R A

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2010, 02:46:53 PM »
   It would be hard to do better than the suggested dark colored Acru-Glas.  It is a simple fix that looks like it belongs.  I have seen a number of European guns, mainly Jaegers that had flaws in the wood.  Some they fixed by filling and others they set a piece of wood in.  The filled knots and blemishes looked like they belonged there, the patches always look like---- a patch.   
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Offline Robby

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2010, 04:34:01 PM »
In fixing a situation like Smallpatch has, would you fellows, first use an ice pick or some other tool to carefully break up any brittle or punky wood that you typically find in Knotty areas, or trust the accra-glass to penetrate an hold fast the pithy wood?
Robby
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Offline David Rase

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2010, 04:41:28 PM »
I was taught by Ron Ehlert during his Jaeger class at Western Kentucky to fill knot holes in English walnut with a mixture of epoxy and ebony dust. 
DMR

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2010, 05:54:02 PM »
FWIW:
personally I'd inject a real thin penetrating/wicking CA glue to stabilize the flaws and any soft wood, then fill with a dark epoxy. 
Consider what the original guys would probably have done,  filled the flaws with finish and sawdust most likely, maybe a hard asphaultum if they had access to it.  Other than high-end bespoke rifles I doubt they'd discard a stock they put much time and effort into unless it was structurally weak,

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2010, 05:59:50 PM »
You can mash some walnut scrap into fibers, then mix that with the epoxy, and 'comb' the fibers into alignment with the grain before the glue sets up.

For the dark spots in the knots, Taylor's suggestion is perfect. Stain the accraglas dark, and file off when completely set up.

Cleaning out any powdery or non-structural wood is a good idea.

Tom
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brokenflint

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2010, 06:07:02 PM »
toe plate in the appropriate area?  any providence for that?  might be easier than color / grain match.   

brokenflint

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2010, 06:12:30 PM »
For the crack on the lower stock, any chance to just reshape from trigger to buttplate to eliminate the defect? Or not enough to play with there?   

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2010, 10:35:05 PM »
For these defects on this gun I think it would look good to inject the thin CA and then after staining fil the holes, crack with clear epoxiy or whatever and finish over.  These are not unsightly laws, they just need to be protected and appreciated.  Hey, this is a real wood stock..... to many people these days have never seen one.  :o  Some body will ask you how you faked those knots!! ::) ::)  ;D
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Offline Artificer

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2010, 11:09:43 PM »
I reakize BP stocks won't get the recoil pounding that Garand stocks do, but perhaps some will find this useful. 

In areas that get highs and lows of humidity, I've seen too many Accraglas and even epoxy patches come loose or pop out due to the swelling and shrinking of the stock. 

I solved this by using a tiny dental burr in a dremel tool and cutting into the stock to make a sort of flat topped cone shape in the wood.  I grind down then out at an angle all around the hole. The bottom of the cone may be very uneven or irregular and I do my best to ensure I don't harm any of the surface wood that is left.  The expoxy or Accraglas sets up like an interior dovetail and ensures the patch can't come out.

Dave K

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2010, 05:09:55 AM »
I have repaired them with just plain epoxy, left clear in color (or lack of color). I actually thought the repair looked good and the gun then had character. The lack of color just made the knot look solid and the epoxy was just as colorful as the finish I used. I had a deep gouge in an old SxS I was refurbishing. It had a very deep gouge in the butt stock. I just cleaned out the gouge wo fresh colored wood and then filled it with epoxy. When the gun was finished all signs were gone as the gouge was now flush with the surrounding finish. The gouge was right in the center of this butt stock, on this side of the stock.[/img]
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 05:10:48 AM by Dave K »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2010, 09:57:25 PM »
If you want to use period correct materials one option is cutler's resin.  I make mine of pine pitch, charcoal and beeswax.  You can change the filler.  Charcoal in this case will give you black.  Ashes will give you gray.  Horn scrapings/sandings will fill worm holes in horn, etc.  Do this outdoors and don't catch yourself on fire as the stuff is like napalm, sticks to you and burns deep.

I find pine pitch, get about a 12 oz can filled with it and heat it up till it's runny over or to the side of a fire.  I strain it though another pre-heated 12 oz can with holes punched in the bottom into a smaller soup can.  Take some charcoal from a log that's half burned and pound it with a mallet till it's powder, then strain it through a wire mesh.  Add about 1/3 volume compared to the pitch.  Now add about 1/6 volume beeswax.  More beeswax if you want it flexible (not needed here).  Mix it all together over heat.  When it is uniformly mixed, take some sticks like popsicle sticks and dip them in like you were dipping candles.  Dip. let it harden, dip again, etc.  Leave a handle of 6" w/o any resin on it.  Now you can heat this over a stove or fire, get some molten stuff ready to run off, and patch your holes in most anything.  A couple of these sticks should be in your kit when you go a trekking for a few days.  It was called cutler's resin because knifemakers would use it to fill the holes in "through-tang" knife handles.  It has been around since cave-man days.  I've used it to patch defects in tool handles, fix cracks, stabilize loose axe heads, etc.  It will clean up with turpentine.  I have successfully varnished over it.

OK, another option is a wood patch and we see many of these on original European guns.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 10:01:19 PM by richpierce »
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Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: Mike and Acer.... My wood problems
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 12:15:37 AM »
On those holes I'd just ignore them and put a little stock finish in them. They will give the gun character and I have seen originals like this.