flint ignition at VERY low temps

[Larry Pletcher]

Maybe I should address this question to our Canadian friends, but others may have an experience with this.  Has anyone noticed a  change in flintlock performance at really low temps?  I rarely see below zero temps in Indiana, and if I do probably choose not to head for the range.    I'm particularily interested in spark production at zero or below.  Any thoughts??
Regards,
Pletch

[Canute Rex]

For the past couple of years I have competed at the primitive biathlon in Jeffersonville Vermont. It happens at the end of January, and it hovered around 0 degrees F both times I did it.

I didn't notice any change in speed of ignition. The low humidity made for hard flaky residue, both in the barrel and pan. I use 4F Goex in the pan and 3F Goex down the spout.

There was a change in the speed of loading - I did it as fast as I could before my fingers could stop working.

[The other DWS]

Interesting idea;
Would cold effects on the mechanical parts as well as their lubricants be a factor along with generally reduced humidity.  perhaps too there might be a bit more wear on flints if they became more brittle.

might be possible to put a lock and flint in the freezer and then test it without powder to see if it sparks different or if lock time is slowed down any.

Idle speculations:
perhaps some slight reduction on performance but probably not enough for most shooters to notice.

however changes in humidity might have more effect on powder and ignition performance.  In addition a cold soaked barrel and a really cold lubed patch & ball might also make changes in the
the main charge burn pattern.

I know cold effects smokeless cartridge and smokeless powder but have now idea if or how it actually effects the way black powder burns.  Hunters going into the Arctic have traditionally developed cold specific loads and have de and re-lubed their actions with different cold-temp lubes to avoid slowed lock time

[Mad Monk]

Maybe I should address this question to our Canadian friends, but others may have an experience with this.  Has anyone noticed a  change in flintlock performance at really low temps?  I rarely see below zero temps in Indiana, and if I do probably choose not to head for the range.    I'm particularily interested in spark production at zero or below.  Any thoughts??
Regards,
Pletch

Pletch,

In theory here.

Black powder is still used as an intermediate primer in large-caliber artillery and high-altitude aircraft ammunition because of its ability to ignite and burn at low temperatures where it becomes most difficult to ignite smokeless powders.

But!  The thing with ignition and combustion of black powder is that you have to "pump heat into it to get heat out of it".
With BP you must heat the potassium nitrate to its melting temperature and then keep heating it to its decomposition temperature where it will then release oxygen to support additional combustion.  So to get it going at low temperatures it take more calories of heat to reach the decomposition temperature.  So as the temperature goes down it will slow down the ignition phase of the powder combustion.

I have never seen anything published as to just how much the ignition and combustion is slowed.  I would imagine that the slowing is greater when the powder is burned in the open, as in a flintlock pan, versus in a closed tube, as in the barrel.

Oh No!  Another project in the thinking stage?

Bill K.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

In years gone by, we used to stop shooting if the temperature got to -25 C., not because ignition was slow, but because mainsprings would break, and often.  In those days we shot mostly percussion rifles rather than flintlocks.  I don't remember there being any change in ignition speed.
Nowadays, we agree not to shoot if it is colder than -10 or so.  At that temperature I can not see any slowing of ignition in my flintlocks.

[JoeG]

When I lived in Alaska we had club shoots when temps would 10-20 below
I never noticed a difference in ignition
just be sure to reload right after you shoot ,because if you wait too long the spit patch will freeze and stick
 half way down the barrel

[The other DWS]

I have been told that spermwhale oil was used to lubricate precision fitted parts of critical tools, scientific and navigation instruments, clocks and watches (as well as gun locks??) because it did not thicken with age and adverse conditions.  I know it was used by arctic and antarctic explorers as well as in early high altitude aviation.
Its very hard to find nowadays, but if you can find an old old auto repair shop that has been around since before WW II they might just have a little on a dusty shelf somewhere in the back of the shop.  It was the lubricant used in  automatic transmissions in the early years.  Modern autotransmission fluid is basically synthetic spermwhale oil and is sometimes used as a substitute in some lube applications.

At some point in the subzero temp range metal becomes brittle--mention was made earlier of a fear of springs snapping, it could also effect hammer necks and maybe even frizzens.  I wonder if it would effect flint performance.

the good thing is that if you shot enough game before it got quite that cold, spoilage would not be a factor.

[Daryl]

Most of us use a concoction of winter windshield washer fluid - with a bit of liquid soap, olive oil or neetsfoot oil added - never a problem with freezing.  for hunting, there's neetsfoot oil or mink oil - both of those also work well for general shooting as well. do check zeros though, as some guns will shoot high with an oil compared to a water based lube. Too, best accuracy will seldom come with the same load with different lubes.

The water based lubes also generally give the most consistant accuracy due to closer shot to shot velocities - this means what lower standard deveiations means.

[The other DWS]

Daryl  are you referring to patch lube or to lock/trigger lube?
 I was thinking in terms of the lube used on the metal parts to avoid oil set up slowing or stopping set trigger or lock function.
  I know modern hunters who went into the arctic for polar bears (when it was legal) or musk ox or extreme northern cariboo either de-oil their actions and run them bone dry for the short period of a hunt.
 I have heard of compound bow hunters in the far north who have run into problems with their bows at extreme cold. (my trad-bow friends do much better in that regard)

[Roger Fisher]

Treading near the border of this thread; but anyone know what the russkies had that the SS did not on the Easter Front extreme cold when the German had to build fires under their Panzer engines to get them to turn over and the russian did not??   Also, I recall many (too many) years ago when one of my hunting pards couldn't get ignition with his suppository rifle due to the oil in his rifle stiffening the firing pin.   I use powdered grafhite (sp) since then..works for me.   JoJoba oil should solve the bitter cold problem for patch material also....

[Daryl]

I use a synthetic & moly axle grease, thin swipe on bearing parts inside my locks - seems to work well & stays soft to .40- so works just fine. Other greases become hard.  Also, before doing this, the final spray/flush with WD40 always worked well before switching to the synthetic&moly axle grease.
Amsoil grease is wonderful for cold weather lubing.