The other DWS.....try to visualize that pin thru the trigger to be the "fulcrum" of a pry bar. If you were going to use an
8 foot long 2x4 as a pry bar, and wanted to pry something rather heavy, you most certainly wouldn't put the fulcrum in
the middle of the 2x4......would you? You will be able to lift much more, more easily, if you put that fulcrum about 2 feet
from the end toward the object, and apply pressure with the 6 foot end. The same general principle applies to a single
trigger. And for you Dan, I've built almost 85 guns in my lifetime, most of them with single triggers, and now you come
along and tell me I've been doing it all wrong all of this time. If you pin it at the 1" point, from the sear bar, the distance
to the bottom of the trigger, or the other end of this "pry" bar will be about 1 1/2". If we use those same ratio's on my
2x4 example, we would be putting the fulcrum of that 8' pry bar at slightly less that 5 feet on one end, and a little more
than 3 feet under the weight we are going to lift.....doesn't sound too efficient to me. I'm sure not going to tell you how
to build guns, but, on the other hand, I am surely not going to recommend that they pin their triggers an inch from the sear bar. I would recommend slightly under 1/2", I've found that this works well, along with some good stoning of the
sear surfaces........all part of gunbuilding...........Don
Don it might be best if you confine your comments to carpentry. Or you might read my post a little closer.
Just because you lack the ability to make a lock work without having the trigger pivot in a specific place it is not an indication that everyone else suffers from this handicap.
I did not, you should have noted, advocate setting ALL pivots at 1".
I have a rifle made with this trigger and plate.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=156&styleId=709&partNum=TR-ENG-Thttp://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=156&styleId=709&partNum=TR-ENG-PThe sear contact is just short of the end of the trigger extension, about an inch from the pivot, perhaps more I have no intention of pulling it apart for exact measurements. I was not pleased with having it this far "out" but it was not the problem you seem to think it would be. There is no creep and it breaks cleanly at 50 ounces on my old spring trigger pull gauge (thats 3 1/8 pounds for folks without a calculator handy). I could likely make it 8-12 ounces if I wanted, but its a hunting rifle.
Of course its a Manton design lock so it has small sear notches and I do know how to make sears and tumbler notches work. The result is the best trigger I have on a rifle. The pistol mentioned in my post with the trigger pinned at the sear screw location is just as good. Funny how that works. All it takes is a little tuning to make the parts work properly together.
The rifle has what many here would call a very heavy mainspring as well.
The trigger location in relation to the lock is remarkably like some original English rifles of the late Flint period. The Tatham rifles in "British Flintlock Military Rifles" and on plate XI of George's "English Guns & Rifles".
Finally I would submit that I was trying to *point out* that having a pivot more than 5/8 or so from the sear arm was by no means a *disaster*, not ideal IMO, but its still easily doable and a very good trigger pull will result if the PROPER INSTALLATION & TUNING IS DONE. In fact a crisper trigger will result from having the pivot at 5/8 as opposed to 3/8". But this does not mean its *wrong* to set one at 3/8" if it becomes necessary for some reason.
1/2" is what *I* consider minimum since creep starts to be a factor as the trigger has to move relatively far to get movement from the sear (BTDT too), its one of those lever things you were using lumber to illustrate. I *personally* would rather deal with the higher pressures needed by the longer distance than the creep. For ME a high sear pressure is easier to fix. Someone else may feel differently.
*I think* that 5/8" or a little more is best *IMO*. But for those who use locks out of the box this short distance can solve problems caused by poorly formed sear noses/tumbler notches that they might lack the experience to modify safely. So for some the shorter distance, is the parts allow, might be of some advantage. Builders who tunes/changes just about every lock he gets or makes from castings it might not be the best choice. I make a lot of internal parts because often the castings are "unsuitable" in either parts sets or even some finished locks.
BUT EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN PROCESSES THAT WORK WELL FOR THEM.
So most of what is written by the members of this forum is educational in nature, trying to aid some other poster with some issue or another. It is meant to inform and answer questions. I almost ALL cases there is more than ONE RIGHT ANSWER.
I simply try to relate things I have seen or done of the last 40 odd years of learning to be a gunmaker that might be of some use to others. I don't believe you will find a single instance where I insisted anyone do things as I advocate. I certainly have never threatened to come to someone's house or shop and bend their ramrod hole drill shaft, for example, because its not the type I would use.
Dan
