bore lube

[The other DWS]

something in the cold flushing thread triggered something else I wonder about but don;t want to deraail that valuable thread.

Most of my past ML experience has been with smoothbore trade guns.  however I do a LOT of 22rf shooting in the Singles shot schuetzen matches  so bore conditions and lubes are of great interest to me.

when we shoot a M/L rifle we are usually using a lubed patch of some sort between the ball and the barrel steel.  the BP leaves a fouling that is cruddy, perhaps somewhat abrasive and certainly at least mildly acidic.  So we diligently scrub out our guns using various methods. I have used the old style boiling water/ramrod pumping method in the past but am reevaluating.

based on my 22rf shooting and the advantages of a "lube seasoned" barrel.  I'm wondering if pre lubing a warm barrel with a lanolin based lube and then polishing it into the steel real well with a succession of tight dry patches and then cleaning with cold non-soapy water might not help things. the cold water would not cut the lube,  like cleaning a well seasoned iron skillet.

I'm also wondering about grease-lubed patches as opposed to saliva-lubed ones---but maybe that should be yet another topic----and I have NOT archive searched it yet either.

[Daryl]

Had a talk along this nature with Frank House at Dixon's last July. He fully believes in a  seasoned barrel, while I prefer seasoning on on my steaks, and veggies only.  Each to his own, I guess, but he also wipes every shot - I'm too lazy for that and as long as my guns shoot into less than 2moa - even to 200 yards, I'm happy with not seasoning and not wiping at any time while shooting.  "Ven you loats der next von, you vipes der last" - or somthing to that effect.  As to seasoning, it takes only one shot to hit centre & as shown on our warm-up target board, the first can be trusted from some guns, even to long range. Some guns shoot a bit low first shot until the gun is 'seasoned', while others are true form the first through the hundredth shot.

As to seasoning as in some grease product left in a barrel, I'd be concerned I was leaving something like fouling or moisture in the seasoning (any water in that seasoning?, to rot the bore while sitting.  I prefer a spottlessly clean steel after cleaning, then lightly oiled with a film, drying or not for storage and for in between uses.

As to rimfire, I've found usually takes 3 to 10 shots (depending on the gun) to 're-season' or re-stabilize the interior of a barrel that has been sitting for some time - uncleaned.  This is with the previous shooting's lube in the barrel, before it starts shooting perfectly again. I don't clean my gopher and BR .22 - maybe I should, but am concerned I'll hurt it's most wonderful accuracy.

BP fouling, without the introduction of moisture, leaves neutral fouling, unlike the phony powders.  At low humidity BP fouling will not hurt a barrel.

[The other DWS]

good info, thanks.  re the RFs I've developed the theory that in a lot of cases, depending on ambient temps, it takes shots to get the barrel and its "seasoning" warm and slick.

[Daryl]

I'd rather have the results I'm getting now, especially from the .40 & .69 - first through 50th go into the same group - no warmups - no wiping.

[northmn]

Thompson Center recommends a "seasoning technique using their lube.  Some say it works others don't care for it.  Their Bore Butter does guard against rust as I have experimented with it.  They recommend using it to protect the barrel after cleaning and that its use will over time season the bore??  If it does protect the bore, there may be some advantage over a petroleum based protector in that petrol and BP do not mix.
We have had long discussions over lube in the past.  What they boil down to is that for accuracy shooting the "liquid lubes" like Lehigh valley, Hoppes #9+ and spit, work as cleaners while you are shooting and help to keep the fouling down.  These are what Daryl uses with very tight ball patch combos when shooting in matches.  The disadvantage of these lubes is that they tend to dry out fairly quickly and work best when shot right after loading.  For a gun carried for a while such as for hunting, the wax/grease lubes are better as they do not dry out, and offer some bore protection when loading.  Considering the times, I am convinced that the D. Boones of the time often shot, cleaned their guns after the shot and then reloaded, depending on environment.  The tallow may have been a bore protector more than a lube for the shot as they left their loads in for some time.  Most of the grease type lubes foul worse during steady shooting and make reloading increasingly difficult.

DP

[William Worth]

The oft cited CT muzzleloader experiments page did not have a favorable review of Bore Butter's anti-corrosion properties.

I'm sure a quick search on here will locate the link.

[northmn]

Just finished reading a forum on Bore Butter.  Most thought it was OK as a lube but did not like it for long term storage.  The seasoning issue is generally thought to be rather overstated.  One claim is that it is pine seceneted udder balm.  I used to use Crisco as a lube and still have not found anything better for its use as a patch lube for hunting.  Can pay more for some products though.

DP

[The other DWS]

quite some time back there was a large now defunct shooting site called "shooters talk" that had a whole lot of specialized forums.  there was a cast bullet one that got really heavy into the whole lube lube chemistry business.  there were a couple of guys on there who were in the soap and wax chemestry business professionally who shared a lot of scientific info.  they posted and analysed/discussed all sorts of lube blends
 While searching for an inenxpensive local source for pure lanolin for a mix.  I found a commerical product called "Corona Lanolin-high ointment" in my local farm store in the horse and cow doctoring department.  It was mostly pure emulsified lanolin and beeswax in a real soft paste with some smell-good stuff, mineral oil etc.
  I posted it to the site and asked about it and was told it'd make a perfect BP lube -- the additives would be harmless.  I've been using it for years now as the basis for my schuetzen bullet lube---just adding more beeswax to stiffen it up.
  I'm thinking it might try it on some patches when it get this trade rifle done and ready to shoot.

{addendum:  just as an FYI and out of my own curiosity I did a quick search and came up with this
http://www.coronaproducts.com/products.html#ointment         I guess it has been used for years on human itches and irritations---so I guess if your breech gets a bit itchy you can apply a lubed patch as required }

[northmn]

There was one post awhile back where accuracy tests were done for a magazine.  Water was found to be a pretty good patch lube.  Again for immediate shooting at a range.

DP

[Daryl]

The .69, with it's large charges does get dirty after a number of shots fired with neetsfoot oil or mink oil for lube as in a hunting situation.  The smaller bores, like .40 and .32 never need wiping all day while shooting, using either of those two for lube.
I still use a water based lube- ie: windshield Washer fluid with a bit of liquid soap, olive oil or neetsfoot oil (doesn't matter) added for trail walks, where shooting is done within a couple minutes of loading. I only add soap or one of the oils to help slow down the evapouration. Oce wet, the patches and stored in the metal conatiner, they are good for a few days or more.
At $3.00 to $4.00 per gallon, it's pretty cheap lube when you don't want to use spit.

[hanshi]

I'm in agreement with Daryl concerning cleaning the bore down to the metal and then applying a rust preventative.  I consider "seasoning" a bore to be a myth; a rifle's bore is not a skillet and a built up layer of crud should always be avoided.  However, if by "seasoning" one means breaking in a barrel, then I'm somewhat in agreement as bores often need to be polished down by firing.   I've also found the old axiom of small bores fouling worse than large bores to be a myth.  If anything they foul less.

My experience on grease patches is consistent with what Northmn has found.  If a barrel will stay loaded for any length of time you certainly want to avoid any lube that contains water.  This is why My first load-in the woods, hunting, etc-uses a patch greased with Crisco.  As long as it is not fired the gun can be left loaded for weeks or months. 

Care for bp guns is straight forward: Clean thoroughly with water, dry thoroughly and then apply your proven rust preventative.

[Darkhorse]

Just a side note here; This past deer season my .54 flint had been loaded with Lehigh Valley for about 2 weeks right at the end of the season. One Sunday morning after breaking camp one of our lease members wanted to see me shoot the flint. Seeing as I was going to do that anyway soon as I got home I obliged.
It was calm and the pine needles and leaves were dry as tinder.
While they were gawking at the paper plate I had managed to perforate with an obviously inaccurate, out of date weapon, I noticed a little trail of smoke wafting up from the leaves. There was a smoldering fragment of pillow ticking surrounded by rapidly spreading coals. In fact we ended up finding 5 or 6 little fires starting up.
All I can figure is the LH dried out and the patch caught on fire and fragmented.
The material is/was good and strong and all my fired patches could actually be reused, but this particular patch was an abomination.
I'm going back to either Mink Oil or Crisco for my big game loads seeing as they may stay loaded for a week or so during the season.

[roundball]

All I've ever used for hunting has been Oxyoke or T/C patches prelubed with Natural Lube 1000...no effect on powder, always reliable, etc.

As long as the humidity stays up I can use NL1000 lubed patches to shoot range session without wiping, but once the air gets dry / low humidity, they're not wet enough and I have to add a squirt or 3 of Hoppes PLUS BP lube into a bag of patches to get them wet enough to avoid wiping between shots.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I use deer tallow cut with Crisco for cold weather and straight up in warm.  Might have to add beeswax in hot weather - if I ever get around to shooting then.

I don't swab 'tween shots.  I just use lots of tallow.  Like a 1/4" plug of it between the powder an' ball!

I'm not sure what to make of the "seasoning" concept.  Some folks say they don't believe in it, but then those same folks swear by a simple cold-water flush for cleaning.  They talk of flash rusting the bore with boiling water.

If I cook with veggie oil on my iron pan, a cold water rinse works just fine.  However if I cook with bacon drippings I need a hot tap water rinse (after the pan has cooled) otherwise the only thing I accomplish is smearing the grease around.  I also know that if I dump water in the pan when it is still hot enough to boil, I'll strip the seasoning right off.  It's best to let the pan cool, except if you need to remove burnt-on scum. 

I'm not necessarily convinced that the seasoning prevents sticking to the pan, but I am convinced that the seasoning offers some level of rust prevention.

[Daryl]

Wash that cast iron pan out with very hot water and soap and see how long it takes to show rust.

[roundball]

My Bride of 42 years has accumulated several cast iron frying pans, griddles, soup pots, etc...we've always washed them with hot soapy water, let the warm stove or oven get them bone dry, then just wipe a light film of cooking oil on the surfaces...some of them are probably 35 years old and look like new

[Daryl]

I use cast pans for cooking when camping - whether at rondy, hunting or fishing.  They are seasoned and stay that way. Boiling water in them to lift anything stuck,, then re-oiling with olive oil when still hot afterwiping them out keeps them that way.  If allowed to cool after boiling or washing, they will rust just fromt he humidity in the air.
The flash rusting was what I got in the TC I started with, perplexed by this for several years, until reading H&H's letter to my friend about NEVER using anything but cold water for cleaning after shooting Black Powder. What's recommended in strong verbage by one of the most famous of all gun makers in the world, past and present, is good enough for me.

[northmn]

I read arguement ad nauseum for the seaoning concept on another site.  Welders talked about how hydraulic cylinders would bleed out oil even after cleaning for welding.  Whether that has anything to do with a BP barrel   Personally I think the cast iron skillet example is OK.  I do think certain lubes can protect the bore when a load is left in say during hunting season.  Also there is a matter of powder contamination over time. A stiff lube will not contaminate like one that has run from heat.  I like to leave the deer rifle in my garage during season for that as one reason.  Some use a wad between the powder and patch like anotehr dry patch. 

DP

[Daryl]

 I like to leave the deer rifle in my garage during season for that as one reason.  Some use a wad between the powder and patch like anotehr dry patch. 

DP

I have done the same using a thin card wad and left the gun loaded for 4 months or more, over New Years and when finally firing, hit centre at 100yards, just as if it was fresh loaded. I used Track's Mink Oil for lube.