Muzzleloader Builders Supply

[Randy Hedden]

I see in the latest "Muzzleloader" magazine that MBS is for sale. Good opportunity for one of you guys.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[rich pierce]

That's a couple of major suppliers that have sold their companies in the past couple of years.  Maybe it's not all fun, all the time.

[Tom Currie]

That's too bad. I ordered my first supplies from Susie nearly 20 years ago when she took over form Don Eads. Always provided good customer service.

[Randy Hedden]

That's a couple of major suppliers that have sold their companies in the past couple of years.  Maybe it's not all fun, all the time.

Rich,

Is any job fun all the time? I thought a job was more about income and less about having fun. I would think that having fun was just a bonus?

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[rich pierce]

I hear ya, Randy.  "Maybe it's not all that profitable, all the time".   

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

Don't panic guys! The business is simply bigger than I am.  I'm only one person and spread so thin I can't handle the demands of so many. Thought I would take my time and maybe let someone else have the reins of an excellent company. I would like to step back and work on some much needed other goodies like new castings and locks without the pressure of running a company at the same time.
Also, stay tuned, because right now, I am putting together some details on a new builders school and will be posting that info right after Friendship NMLRA show in September.

[John Longwitz]

MBS is a 1st class outfit I have enjoyed dealing with.  I sure hope they keep the same goods in stock.  Still hope to be able to get one of their European pistol kits in the future.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I hope you find a really good buyer Suzanne.  Somebody withsome money could really clean up if they bought MBS, Tip Curtis's shop and Reeves Gohring's businesses so eall of them could get away from running the businesses.

Dave Keck, you want to expand quickly??   Hehehe I think you gotta really love the field AND love business more tah building etc to really make a sizable, profitable business......look like.

[elk killer]

what a scare that was....

[David Price]

Suzanne,

It has been a pleasure doing business with you, I'll miss you.  I thought that Don Eads selling would be a loss to the gun community but you sure took over in fine fashion.  Good luck on what ever you do.

[Madcaster]

 SUZY!Glad to see ya here!
 Jeff Stamper

[Evil Monkey]

Suzy, post the business over in the "For sale" section and Brian Dancey will buy it. Of course it would only increase his inventory by maybe 20%.

[northwoodsdave]

I'm sorry to hear you are selling, since I just found your company and haven't even had time to make an order.  But as a former small business owner myself, I can understand wanting to get out from under the demands.  It AINT all fun and games. 

Good luck on your gunbuilders school.  I may end up becoming a student there as well!

David L

[gibster]

Sorry to hear that you are selling.  Keep us informed about the gunbuilding school though.  Depending on when it is, I'm very interested.
Gibster

[Knob Mountain]

Dr Tim Boone,  Thanks for your vote of confidence,,,,,,I guess.  Maybe while you have me buying all the above mentioned businesses I should also throw in a lock and barrel company to complete it.. Then I can sit at my desk all day and scratch my head. If I borrowed the money it would take,  for the purchase, the only people making money would be the bank. If I had the cash to buy them all I would just retire!  LOL.. I've been self employed for over 25 years and owned numerous businesses.  Its not all fun and games and at times it can consume you..  Suzy is right when she says that often we can't actually get done projects that we want to because of the every day stuff that's needs attending to.  There are many reasons to get out and change .  Some folks want more money.  Some want more time to live.  Others burn out and some feel they have conquered it and set new goals and its time to move on.  All that said I'm going to go do more head scratching and look for the next business to buy.  Ya gotta keep your options open.  Good luck to you Suzy!!

[don getz]

Remember the old adage, "it takes money to make money".   That is one advantage Tip Curtis has in this business,
apparently he had the cash to do his thing, and he enjoys it.   On the other hand, if you have to borrow money to buy
a business,  you had best look at those profit figures...can they support you and the bank?.  I've seen some people
make a good living at it, and I've seen some starve at trying to do it.......Don

[Jim Chambers]

As the old saying goes: "If it was easy everyone would be doing it."  That is especially true in the muzzleloading business because it requires a huge amount of effort and time to make very little profit.  Put 16 hours a day into a muzzleloading business and you might just make ends meet.  Put that much time into any other business and you will be a multi-millionaire.  One problem with the muzzleloading business is that there are a lot of people in it just as a hobby.  They don't need to make a profit, and that makes it difficult on those of us who are in it as a profession and as a sole means of support.  To own a muzzleloading business is definitely a labor of love.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Well from everyone who has been mentioned here who is in the business, the love tells the tail. Wonderful folks to do business with and make friends with!
We just all need to do our best to support you all and keep growing the market by getting more people intereted in shooting, collecting and building traditional guns!

Maybe I will win the lottery ..... Well,  one can dream.

[Jim Kibler]

This thread and especially Jim Chambers response has brought a few thoughts to mind.  In the short time I've been involved in this stuff, it's become clear how much of a labor of love these things have been to so many.  Think we should all be thankful and appreciative of what others, especially those before us have done.  Many have devoted a large portion of their lives and sacrificed a lot for this stuff.  Just seems to be something which is easily lost sight of but we need to remind ourselves of once in a while.

-Jim

[lew wetzel]

amen to that jim....these pioneers that have given us the availability to get quality parts and  that have given us the tools to learn and research  how things were and are done  what is going to keep this alive for a long time.i love rifles and the creativity that goes into building them and mostly the people that  make this a everyday part of thier lives.and are so open to share and help us with passion to grow and become masters.
i have just had some emails from ian tonight about the gun building class and how much he is willing to work with me to get me there and involved and i tell all of you this...there are no two finer men and builders out there right now as ian pratt and jim kibler....and it is an honor to learn under them.....

[don getz]

A few things to think about.  Almost every muzzleloading company that we deal with is a "cottage" business.  By that I
mean, it is privately owned and operated, there is no mention of them on the stock market.  If you are large enought that you must hire employes, believe me, that chews up a huge portion of your income.  When I ran the barrel business, I had
three people on the payroll.  By the time you were finished paying their weekly wages, workmens compensation insurance, perhaps helping to pay their medical insurance, and then matching what was deducted from their wages for
social security, you took a deep breath.  On top of that you have to deal with personalities all the time, time off for vacations, etc.    At the end of the year you suddenly realize that half of your yearly income was tied up in employing
people.  Then, out of the other half, you had to pay all of the other expenses of running the business.....if there was anything left, you could have it....that is, until you had your taxes done, then you paid a portion of that to the federal government.  Now, maybe you can realize why my son John has dedided to do it on his own.  I think if you ask the other
barrel companies, you will find the same thing.....Ed Rayl, Bob Hoyt, Rice,  which I think is a family thing, and I'm not sure
how Longhammock works, but is probalby the same way.  One thing that should happen, If these people are going to
continue, is that the prices of their products should go up.  If you have noticed, Jim Chambers has been increasing the
price of his locks....did you ever wonder why?  I'm sure it is done to show just a little more on the profit side.  Many people
get into muzzleloading thinking they can build a gun "cheaply".....believe me, those days are over.   If you want to get into this business and expect to make a lot of money, you are disallusioned.  Unless you have another source of income,
you had better be ready to wear old clothes and drive old cars.........Don

[flehto]

The people who own small businesses that cater to us MLers surely are a dedicated lot. The time. energy and money involved would return greater profits in other endeavors... so, why do they do it? Possibly early on they have hopes that an interest or hobby can be turned into a business that will return enough profit to sustain a comfortable living. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't...depends on the individual. Later on after having experienced what probably is a more complicated venture than they anticipated, reality sets in and depending on the individual's perseverence and other factors, must decide if it's worth it. It's really surprising that these businesses stay around as long as they do and when one decides to "pull the plug", we do feel a loss. Supplying "goods" from a myriad of outside suppliers to "picky" gunbuilders requires something that's akin to "sainthood".....Fred

[Jim Chambers]

I'll agree with everything Don Getz said above except the part about increasing lock prices to make more profit.  Actually, the increase in prices doesn't quite keep up with inflation and the increased cost of everything associated with being in business from insurance to electricity.
Had I declined to purchase the Siler Lock Co. in 1991 and kept the job I had then I could have retired three years ago with an income at least equal to what I now work 12 to 15 or more hours a day to achieve.  And, I'll have to keep working probably forever, no retirement in my future.
One other thing to keep in mind when shopping for the cheapest parts available to build your next rifle,  this whole industry is sitting on "egg shells".  By that I mean, for example, should Barbie decide she's had enough trying to sell her rifle kits when others are undercutting her prices by a hundred bucks or more, and decided to just pull the plug on the whole rifle kit business the following could (and probably would) happen.  Her rifle kit business takes over 1/4 of the production of two barrel companies.  Without her business both companies have said many times they would have to fold.  That would cut the supply of barrels by at least 1/2 or more which would then cut the demand for locks by 1/2 which would put at least one lock company out of business.  Same thing goes for wood merchants and the suppliers of other parts.
We're all pulling the same wagon, and we're all needed to make it move forward.  I sincerely hope someone will step up and take over MBS because it's an integral part of the team pulling the wagon.
Sorry to burden you with my ramblings from the soap box again.  I usually try to refrain from such.

[Mike Brooks]

One problem with the muzzleloading business is that there are a lot of people in it just as a hobby.  They don't need to make a profit, and that makes it difficult on those of us who are in it as a profession and as a sole means of support.

AMEN

If you want to get into this business and expect to make a lot of money, you are disallusioned.  Unless you have another source of income,
you had better be ready to wear old clothes and drive old cars.........Don

AMEN AGAIN

[Ohioan]

I'd buy it in a heart beat if I had money. 

Of course, having MBS about an hour from the Log Cabin Shop may not be the best idea.  I could put it in the same building that Golden Age Arms used to be in!

Will MBS be at Friendship?