Filling the gaps

[Bruce]

     There is a bit of a gap between the breech tang and the stock and it needs filling.  However, I've had problems with the glue/wood dust mixture showing up when finishing the stock.  What do you folks recommend to negate this problem?


                                                                  Benedict Marrowsex, aka BHB

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Can you widen or lengthen the tang enough by peening it to fill the gap??  Be careful you don't make to many dents, too deep in the top of the tang.....

Filling the gap with a piece of wood from the stock scrap would probably work better than sawdust and glue. make a nice glue seam, let dry and then reinlet that spot.

[LURCHWV@BJS]

I am having a very similar problem(see pic on first build update) in gun building. I think I am going to reshape to tang re-inlet. Then I need to add some wood to a place I went to far on, Should interesting. Never giveup Never surrender. But sometime you need to step back and rethink your strategy.


               Rich

[bluenoser]

Provided the gap is not overly wide, you can fill it with a shaving or shavings planed off a piece of maple, or walnut if that be the case.

Use a bench plane to cut some shavings off the edge of a piece of scrap.  Vary the depth of the cutter to get shavings of varying thicknesses.  Choose the shaving that best fits the gap and trim it to fit the inlet, but leave it standing proud at the surface.  Apply a small amount of stainable glue to the area of the the inlet where the filler will be, put the filler in place and brace it until dry.  Often, a good way to brace it in place is to simply install the metalwork but be forewarned, iron will turn wet PVA type glues (common white or yellow wood glues) black.  It would probably be a good idea to use a single layer saran wrap type barrier between the ironwork and filler.  I have never stacked filler strips, but see no reason why it wouldn't work.  Once it is dry, trim and sand the filler flush with the wood.  You will be able to see the filler, but once the stock is stained and  finished, it should pretty much disappear.  With small thicknesses, I don't think grain orientation is particularly important.  I would only use this method to fill gaps, not for wide cross-grain repairs  or to replace irregular shaped chunks.

BTW, the true measure of a craftsman (craftsperson these days??) is not whether or not you make mistakes.  It's how well you make them go away.   

Hope this helps
Laurie

[Dphariss]

Pean the metal larger then reshape and see if this helps.

Sawdust and glue works I guess but its not the best idea and usually looks like sawdust a glue.

Dan

[oldiemkr]

Peening is probably the best method. It might help to anneal the metal you will peen.

Don't try to smack it in one or two hits. I like an 8 oz. ball peen. If the area is small you can take a small punch and grind a ball on the tip and move the edge over a bit without needing a lot of cleanup.

I worked for a short time on wood patterns for castings. We used wax for inside corner radius' and small repairs or nicks. It was suprisingly durable.

On the first rifle I built there were some gaps. Also the wood seemed to not be too dry when I bought it so some of the edges opened up a bit. Not much but noticable.

That gun has been redone several times. Started percussion ended up flint etc. No one ever knew until now that a walnut colored crayon had been used to fill acouple of mistakes or shrink areas and then finished with whatever the final finish coat was. won't work on big ones but way more durable than you might think. That gun was built in about 1974.

[Bruce]

     Thanks to you all for your suggestions.  As the gap is of 3/32" or close to it I guess peening is the answer.  Old age is making me stupid.  I didn't think of peening when I should have.  And stretch wrap, another good idea. 

                                                                                T. Flegling Krepps   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

[Acer Saccharum]

Dear Mr Flegling Krepps, the gap of 3/32 can be an awful lot to peen, depending where the gap is. If at the end of the tang, you could stretch the metal to fill, at the expense of thickness. But if up by the breech, you will have to glue wood in.

Tom

[Bruce]

  The gap is lateral and about 1/3 distance from the boslter.  If I have to glue, how can I hide the variation in wood coloration?  Is there a glue whose properties do not render discoloration?

                                                Orlander Silverswift, chairman of the dunces bench

[bluenoser]

For a gap that wide, I think Dr. Tim had the best suggestion.  "Filling the gap with a piece of wood from the stock scrap would probably work better than sawdust and glue. make a nice glue seam, let dry and then reinlet that spot"

I would definitely steer clear of sawdust and glue.  Match the grain as best you can and make sure you have a tight glue joint.  We have used yellow carpenter's glue (usually Titebond II) in the cabinetmaking shop for years, and I can't remember ever seeing discoloration or finishing problems at the joint - so long as the pieces were well fitted.  It will show if it has to fill gaps.

I will probably get jumped on for this- and deservedly so.  If the glue simply has to fill gaps, I suspect the best bet may be to use tinted epoxy.  The main challenge there is to match the color of the epoxy to that of  the finished stock.  As a rule, filler should be the same shade as, or slightly darker than the surrounding wood.  Never lighter.  Also, filler will be noticable due to the lack of grain.

Man, I hate the thought of doing this on a gun!  Try your best to get a nice tight joint and use regular yellow wood glue.

[John Archer]

If you end up glueing a piece of wood in,  I'd suggest using a long curing epoxy like acraglass (24 hr cure) and stain it to match the color of the finished stock as Bluenoser explained.

John.

[wvmtnman]

Don't use an expoxy bed, you will NEVER hide the repair.  Cut a wood shim.  When cutting the shim, try to match up the curl as best you can.  
     When finishing, get you a couple VERY small size art brushes, the smallest you can get at an art supply store.  "Paint" the area darker with darker stains and fade the color the farther away from the fix.  Sort of like having a spot on the fender of you car painted.  Stain you stock prior to doing this.  That area  fo the rifle can be dark.  Use Elmer's stainable wood glue.  I have tested this stuff out and it is strong enough to make that fix.  Don't use epoxy bedding.  You will never hide the epoxy glue line.
If you can get some plain maple, without curl, use that.  Then you can just paint your curl where you want it.  You can also use some paint pigment mixed in your finish oil and put it one only in that area and fade out.
    Glue in the shim now and continue building the rifle.  Play with making repairs with scrap pieces of wood and finishing it.  WHen you feel you have enough practice, do it to you rifle.
    All builders make mistakes sometimes.  The thing that sets the good builders apart is being able to hid the mistakes
                                                                          Brian

[billd]

Be careful using epoxy if you are going to stain with aquafortis. The heatgun could melt the glue. Been there, done that.

Bill

[Dphariss]

     Thanks to you all for your suggestions.  As the gap is of 3/32" or close to it I guess peening is the answer.  Old age is making me stupid.  I didn't think of peening when I should have.  And stretch wrap, another good idea. 

                                                                                T. Flegling Krepps   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

A 4 ounce which I use for most peaning to 8 ounce hammer but no bigger and this requires a lot more care, with a polished face and an block of steel or an anvil for a backer.
Tapping back from the edge outward to swell the part. If you get it out of shape you can file to shape. Start with light taps to see how the metal is going to respond then adjust the weight of blow.
Small gaps can be done by tapping closer to the edge.
The polished face with a slight crown will produce the least amount of clean up after wards. Rough faces just increase the cleanup.
Punches work great for covering stamping and such but not for large areas then make dimples that require more cleanup.

Dan

[derringermike]

I've had success filling up the gaps by burnishing. If the wood is proud of the metal, use a burnisher to  push the wood down around the gap. Be sure to sand lightly after because the wood will be compressed and stain differently. hope this helps.....mike

[Frank]

I never had much success with stainable wood glue. The color never matched. I would stain the wood before gluing and use a glue that dries clear.

[Roger Fisher]

matching wood shim, glue, clamp, re inlet, then dress down!

[Cody Tetachuk]

Peening works well on inlays and patch boxes. It's not, IMO a good way to go with something like a tang as the tang is a straight line that usually should be a continuation of the barrel and peening will cause this line to deviate. A wood "shim" is OK maybe, but, again, not the best route for a seamless repair. A better solution, IMO, is to inlay a piece of matching wood perhaps 1/8" thick or so and about another 1/8" or so to either side of the tang then re-inlet the tang. Make the outside of the wood inlay the same shape as the carving that you intend to use around the tang then when you cut your incise carving line right along the seam the seam will disappear. Another way is to put a brass inlay around the tang and incorporate this into the overall design of the rifle. This inlay CAN be peened if necessary should the fit be less than desired. If the fit is quite poor, throw it away and make another 'till you get it right.