Paying Your Dues

[northmn]

Two things in other posts brought up this thought.  One was Rogers frustration with a shooter (I am too sarcastic for that one) and the issue of sight visibility Daryl bought up.  Some was also a little frustration with my son which reflects the "immediate gratification" mentality we see today.  My son wanted to best me in 3-D archery but never did.  I practiced and enjoyed shooting in my yard and he wanted to play video games.  One of the reasons that I quit Rondys a few years back is that the "buckskinners" seemed to want to set in camp and BS and run down the shooters.  They could be a good as we were if they practised as much.  Maybe true but they did not so they weren't.  Shooters were becoming an endangered species when I left and I still have little tolerance for the Walt Disney buckskinner.
If we want to be good at something, we need to work at it.  It should be enjoyable enough so that the work is at least relaxing or even fun.  when I shot competition there were only a few people I had to compete against, maybe 3-5 depending on the match.  The rest were not that good. Not bragging merely stating a fact.  Those of us that seemed to win or place mostly did a lot of shooting at home.  Talent does play a factor and there were a couple of guys that had to screw up a bit to be beat.  One of the top shooters I knew liked to play with different rifles.  Had he stayed with one rifle he would have been pretty formidable.  
Then you get into the types that want to buy their wins.  They will use about anything or any kind of gadget to beat out the other guy.  Zip guns and Redfield peep sights were introduced by these individuals a few years ago.  This type of individual has ruined it for those that may need modifications due to injury or age.  A fixed peep sight may not be all that bad on a flintlock if done with taste, and if the individual needs it to see the sights, but we have had to ban them because some do not compete with the equipment we specify.  They want that edge.
Just getting my thoughts together.

DP  

[bob in the woods]

 Iam one of those who like to play with different rifles. Every year I took a different gun. and often a different cal. to the 1000 yd matches in Ottawa. I did OK, but not great, but....I had and have an absolute ball!. I learn something everytime I go to a shoot. I usually shoot a new build [flintlock] every year in the muzzle loading matches.  I have won matches against percussion and adjustable peep sights, but the important point is that I really don't care anymore. I compete with myself, so every match is a win for me.
Ihave had guys want to buy my rifle, thinking it will be their magic ticket to winning. Sure..I just build another one! 

[northmn]

Iam one of those who like to play with different rifles. Every year I took a different gun. and often a different cal. to the 1000 yd matches in Ottawa. I did OK, but not great, but....I had and have an absolute ball!. I learn something everytime I go to a shoot. I usually shoot a new build [flintlock] every year in the muzzle loading matches.  I have won matches against percussion and adjustable peep sights, but the important point is that I really don't care anymore. I compete with myself, so every match is a win for me.
Ihave had guys want to buy my rifle, thinking it will be their magic ticket to winning. Sure..I just build another one!  

I pretty much was that way also.  I shot a lot of different rifles.  Sold a few to those that were like you said, wanted the magic ticket.  There was a guy that cleaned everyones clock at a major shoot one year using a TC Hawken.  He shot something like a 48 off hand at 100 yards.  Those that knew him said you could hear him shoot almost every night.

DP

[The other DWS]

It seems like so many people (in all venues of life) are so end-goal fixated that they lose the ability to sense, let alone enjoy, anything else in the process.   Others are so prize driven that they'll beg, buy, or cheat to win.   For both practice is simply something to be endured so they can win.

 The former type make me sad for them, they are missing out on so much.  The latter tend to make me angry when they bend and break the rules, or the spirit of the rules, in their ego driven rush to the top at all costs.

I try to spend as much of my life as possible with people who appreciate the craft, art, skill, and quality to be found in what ever they do; and are interested in the background and perspective of it.

Your mentioning the campfire-and-jug 'skinners reminded me of some of the reenactors we had around in the 70-s and early 80's when I was active in it.  I think they were just bar-flies who used reenacting as a chance to dress up funny and develop an alter-ego to spend fantasy weekends away from their wives (and husbands).  They seemed to barely tolerate, and made minimal effort or contribution to, the educational aspects of the event they were there for the after-hours costume party.

[Candle Snuffer]

I'm fortunate in a way, along with several other Bordeaux Creek Fur Trade and Muzzleloading Association members as we exist to support the Museum of the Fur Trade (Chadron, Nebraska) along with the town of Chadron - during Fur Trade Days held the weekend after the 4th of July.  We've been doing this for over 30 years and have a good working relationship with all involved.  We're also available at any time to help the Museum when in need for any special event, or just to hang around giving a little color to the Trading post out back of the Museum.

Not all buckskinning groups have this opportunity, though they could create the opportunity if they desired to do so.

IMHO there is nothing worse then a "dead" camp with no activities going on for the visitors to walk through and watch.  Thank goodness our club provides such an opportunity for visitors each July.

I don't attend closed camps that are not open to the public.  I'm in this to promote it, not to keep a secrect type society that does nothing to bring in new blood to this sport/hobby.

I have to cut this short - though I have more to say, but I have to get to work.

[chapmans]

I don't know how many of you fellows shoot at Friendship but I've been going since I was 12 or 13, I didn't go for a few years after school but started back up in the  80's. I shoot mostly offhand, and have shot, x-sticks, woodswalk, and a little bench, I also shot the novice trap a few times (still a novice!).

  On the offhand line there are numerous matches for flint and percussion, flint may be used for any match, there are also matches for open sights and for AMS (any metallic sights)  when I shoot an AMS match I shoot a rifle set up with Redfields, in the open sight matches I use opens, there are so many aggs that one would be hard pressed to shoot them all especially at the fall championship, I usually only shoot in 4 or 5 aggs and several individual matches.

   I guess what I'm getting at is I won't break any rules at any shoot, if they only shoot opens then I'll use opens, if it says AMS, I'll use the Redfields. If I'm going to a place I've never been to before I make sure I have an open sighted gun with me.

   I have set some records over the years and finally made it into the Master classification a couple of years ago, the records I own were shot with both open sights and AMS, I will shoot either type of sights and will follow the clubs rules.
   Regards, Steve Chapman

[northmn]

You are starting to miss my point.  When I say paying your dues, Steve has done so to make master class, with whatever.  I doubt like very much that a master class shooter does not burn a little powder and spend some time on the range.  There are two sides to this thinking.  I mentioned those that think they can buy equipment that will make them winners, but there is also the fact that to compete or do well you have to make a few sacrifices in time and dollars.  How many times have I seen someone looking at flintlocks get told that production guns really don't cut it (in so many words).  Someone coming to a match, even a novelty or "primitive" match needs to spend some time learning how to load, and what extras are needed.  I also bet a master class shooter rarely uses a TC rifle, TC ball and TC patches.  Folks that like the camping scene also include those that have researched their clothing and gear and work to be authentic in that manner.  I had a friend that did not shoot much that was very much in to authenticity.  He was probably less tolerant of the "buckskinners" in his way than I was.  Especially when they made a spaghetti dinner one night.  Research, practice and spending the money where it matters.

DP

[Daryl]

When I want to have a very good chance at winning, the rifle I pick has these for sights.  I will and have shot them against all oncommers, open sights, peep sights with bead or blade as well as tang mounted adjustable apertures with globed front aperture sights shooting ctgs. Let's have at it. Not beating the ctg. guns in the long range match was my dang fault for screwing up at 100 yards. Matched or beat them at the longest range shot- all offhand.
Practise is the most important aspect of shooting well - manipulation of the load is important in any shooting game that becomes more than a casual sport for a person.

[Candle Snuffer]

Back from work to finish my earlier post.

There not much I can add that Steve, Daryl, and the others haven't already covered.  I shoot the program with what is called for.  I have a favorite fixed iron sight set up that I use 99% of the time.  I'd be hard pressed not to use this set up in any event, but when shooting AMS X-Sticks it's a different story, I do go with the Aperture sights.

There's many different matches to enjoy at the shoots we attend.  I've just found it easier for most all my shooting to stay with the fixed iron sights.  This way my rifle's are eligible for any match. 

I've long since stopped competing against others who are at the matches.  I compete against myself as I'm the one I have to beat,,, not the guy or gal next to me.  Sometimes I win a prize, sometimes I don't...  But I do give what I do my best shot.  (No pun intended)

[ehoff]

Northmn I think I udnerstand what you are trying to get at. The way to be come a better shooter is by shooting, you have to get out on the range and spend time working up a load, working on your shooting form, and putting shots down range. Then there are the "arms race" people who see the way to become a better shooter as having some magical combination of stuff (barrel, lock, sights, etc) and with this they will only have to show up at the shoot and will wipe the field.

I understand this as  someone who occasionly rises to the level of a competent shooter and places in a match, but it was not always so. I had to (and still do) work at becoming a better shooter by shooting, no quick fix no magical combination of stuff made it happen.

[northmn]

Northmn I think I udnerstand what you are trying to get at. The way to be come a better shooter is by shooting, you have to get out on the range and spend time working up a load, working on your shooting form, and putting shots down range. Then there are the "arms race" people who see the way to become a better shooter as having some magical combination of stuff (barrel, lock, sights, etc) and with this they will only have to show up at the shoot and will wipe the field.

I understand this as  someone who occasionly rises to the level of a competent shooter and places in a match, but it was not always so. I had to (and still do) work at becoming a better shooter by shooting, no quick fix no magical combination of stuff made it happen.

That is more or less it.  I am not criticizing those that have spent time to come up with a set of sights that works for them as that is part of the game.  Those that show up at an event, where that is the only time they shoot, cannot be expected to do well and also to know much.  If we stay within the rules and parameters of the event, we are paying our dues when we experiment with combnations to find one that works.  Experimentation within  these guidelines is part of the fun and part of the game. Its a two edged sword,  you need to stay within the parameters and  use acceptable equipment, also you need to spend enough and learn enough to know what the acceptable equipment is.  I knew after shooting a lot what an acceptable but very competitive rifle would be, I actually built one, but also loved to play with the knowledge that I was giving up points.  That's OK also.  I liked long rifles but shot shorter rifles a lot better.

DP

[Roger Fisher]

Paying your dues!!   Hmmmm to me means build, buy or otherwise get a quality piece work with it at the range to get optimum accuracy then practice practice and GO TO THE SHOOTS.  This applies to whatever type of matches you apply yourself to, be it bench rifle, offhand rifle or smoothie or of course the chunk game. I have noticed also that many times we get hammered by short rifles....

[Daryl]

Roge r- it is TIME you and your charming wife came to Hefley Creek.

[eagle24]

Paying your dues!!   Hmmmm to me means build, buy or otherwise get a quality piece work with it at the range to get optimum accuracy then practice practice and GO TO THE SHOOTS.  This applies to whatever type of matches you apply yourself to, be it bench rifle, offhand rifle or smoothie or of course the chunk game. I have noticed also that many times we get hammered by short rifles....

and then you can really pay dues.  Do all the things above AND drop the coffee and nicotine habits and pickup about 45 minutes of cardio exercise each day.

[northmn]

Too bad we can't stop the aging also.  I like to shoot a 22 with iron sights to keep in trim.  Went out plinking with it today and took a bit to get things in place.  May have to move its sights up the barrel a bit or make express sights out of them.
To me another thing about paying dues comes in in building the guns, depending on where you want to be.  When you build your own, it seems like you you have a step up on those that do not.  EX. Last fall I replaced a vent liner in the 54 as it seemed slow.  When I target shot the liner could be put in a little low as I only filled the pan up to the hole.  For hunting I was getting the typical fssst of primer dribbling into the touch hole.  Able to fix it very quickly with little hassle.  One of the best shots I knew did not build so I am not saying it is necessary, just that it may be an advantage.
I am kind of a snob on this as I work from planks and make a lot of my parts depending on how ambitious I feel.  I bought a lot of parts for my upcoming deer rifle as I felt a little lazy.  Generally I am more impressed with a shimmel or Tennessee rifle that someone has made from a blank than with a carved and engraved kit gun.  The shimmel has more chances for mistakes and knowledge of their cover up or repair.  That knowledge transfers into shooting the things as well.   

DP