Flint duelling pistol safety

[KentSmith]

How do the sliding safeties on flint duelling pistols work?  Do they engage the tumbler preventing it from turning?  Interfere with the sear so it can't move? Something else?

[J Shingler]

I am sure someone will show up with pictures as they are worth a 1000 words but in simple yes it engages the tumbler to keep it from turning. I have even seen one English lock that had a pin go into the lower face of the frizzen to keep it from opening. Works of art!

[Dphariss]

How do the sliding safeties on flint duelling pistols work?  Do they engage the tumbler preventing it from turning?  Interfere with the sear so it can't move? Something else?

Track of the Wolf's  original Purdey plan has a sliding safety lock with parts identical to the late flint guns like Manton.
They lock the tumbler in this case.

Dan

[smart dog]

Hi Kent,
I cannot find my photos of the inner workings of a pair "bolted" locks I used on some dueling pistols.  The thumb slide on the outside of the lock has a rectangular cross sectional lug that fits through a slot in the lock plate behind the flintcock.  The bar slides into a mortice (just like a mortice and tennon wood joint) in a sliding flat rectangular bar (the bolt) that is located on the inside of the lock plate and between the leaves of the sear spring.  That bar slides back and forth with the thumb slide.  When pushed forward, a portion of the  bar slides into a notch in the tumbler, which lines up with the bar at half cock.  There is a little rounded nub on the inside of the far end of the bolt that sticks up and rubs against a flat spring to lock the bolt forward or back.  The spring is shaped like a "V" that exactly fits within the leaves of the sear spring and it pushes down against the nub on the bolt.  It has a lobe on the front end that is drilled for the sear spring screw which holds it in place along with the sear spring.  The English referred to those locks as "bolted" lock rather than locks with safeties.   

dave

[KentSmith]

Thanks guys.  I have some work to do.

[smart dog]

Hi Kent,
Here are those photos.

[Swampwalker]

Hi Dave - nice job on the lock and safety, but I had a couple of questions.  Did you start with the Davis Twigg lock for this?  Did you opt for the very wide safety base section because you didn't have enough room to fit the safety base between the sear spring and sear screws, and so opted to completely cover the sear screw?
Regards
Dave Balsley

[flintriflesmith]

Just a side note-- I believe these safeties were mostly on pistols that were carried in a belt or holster than on those intended for dueling. Some collectors and printed sources want every pair of pistols to be for dueling but most were simply for carried for self defense.

Safeties are found on a lot of blunderbusses intended to be carried on coaches as well. They were probably a good idea on any gun that is going to be occasionally pointed in a direction were an accidental discharge would be a disaster.

Gary

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
Those locks were made from castings of an original pair of Wogdon dueling pistols from about 1780.  I bought the castings from Blackley's in England.  All of the screws and springs were made by me.  The wide safety slide is the style used on those particular locks.  Most safety slides were narrower and did not hide the sear screw.  Dave, these are small locks just 4.25" long so every component has to fit in a small space.  A fowler lock would be easier to build because you have more room to fit parts and margins for error are bigger. Below are pictures of the finished pistols.  The low angle daylight (Alaska in winter) unfortunately causes a lot of glare in the photos.






Gary, you are completely correct.  Sometimes it seems every dealer calls a pair of cased pistols "dueling pistols".  Traveling pistols, horse pistols, overcoat pistols, fowlers, blunderbusses, and even some quasi-military guns had sliding safeties.  Interestingly, one of the best pair of dueling pistols made by Wogdon for the British royal family did not have safety slides. I find the slide to be a pain to operate.  To release it for shooting, you have to pull the cock back slightly to release pressure on the bolt and slide the safety.  That takes two hands.  I think if you needed to carry the pistol primed and loaded, which means it had to be at half cock, the safety would be useful but it sure doesn't make it easy to point and shoot.

dave

[Dale Campbell]

 Interestingly, one of the best pair of dueling pistols made by Wogdon for the British royal family did not have safety slides. I find the slide to be a pain to operate.  To release it for shooting, you have to pull the cock back slightly to release pressure on the bolt and slide the safety.  That takes two hands.  I think if you needed to carry the pistol primed and loaded, which means it had to be at half cock, the safety would be useful but it sure doesn't make it easy to point and shoot.

dave

If one were dueling in earnest, in addition to everything else, one would not want to be thinking about whether one left the safety on.  Maybe how to apply the safety of one's opponent.

[J.D.]

I find the slide to be a pain to operate.  To release it for shooting, you have to pull the cock back slightly to release pressure on the bolt and slide the safety.  That takes two hands.  I think if you needed to carry the pistol primed and loaded, which means it had to be at half cock, the safety would be useful but it sure doesn't make it easy to point and shoot.

Would removing a bit of material from the lower part of the tumbler notch relieve the binding, or are the sliding safetys supposed to bind...for safety's sake?

Just kinda thinkin'...typin' out loud, so to speak...type.

God bless

[smart dog]

Hi JD,
That is a really good question and I don't know the answer.  The safety bolt spring provides all the tension needed to hold the bolt forward or back so it doesn't need friction in the tumbler slot to keep it in position.  I simply fitted the components as they were positioned on the original and of course finished, polished, and heat treated them.  Opening the slot on the tumbler or stoning the bolt lug might do the trick.  The only reason to have the tumble pressing on the bolt would be if that was done to take pressure off the sear and half-cock notch if it was going to be held at half cock for a long time (like in a coat pocket). The safety bolt is very strong and would never break.

dave