Rococo Jager

[timM]

tim.

[Scott Bumpus]

interesting gun. I "wender" what caliber it is?  I really like the star inlays. Do you know where it was made?

[rich pierce]

The negative relief carving on the butt is unusual and I wonder if it was done when the tang carving and lock panel modlings were done.

[don getz]

Rich.....I got the same feeling about the butt carving....just doesn't look right, nor do the stars on both sides of the butt.
My impression is that someone fiddled with this gun at some point in time.....Don

[lew wetzel]

a very cool wender,man i love this site.

[timM]

Mr. Getz,....... you should elaborate on your "feeling"  If you are going to slander what I am confident to be a good gun you should substantiate your point of view. tim

[Stophel]

Very cool.  I don't doubt the stars at all.

I'd say it was around 1760 or so.  Dating German guns can be difficult.  Putting locations on them can be even more difficult, but would say that it was from somewhere relatively near the Main River.  The Star is "der Fraenkischer Stern" and was used on guns made along the Main river from Franken to der Pfalz, and a little bit north and south of the river.  If I were to further guess, I'd say it was from somewhere just south of the Main.  The "exhuberant" carving has the feel of a more Southerly gun.

The floral carving around the lock panels is very unusual.  In fact, I've never seen anything like it.

[Dave B]

Very nice Wender! I think the carving at the butt oposite the cheek is contemporary with the whole. The style is odd to me but it all matches if you look closely. I enlarged the area and they show similar design. It has a more rustic feel than say something out of Suhl. The engraving shows the same style through out.
They didnt fuss over it, just Get er done. Is the light material in the stars bone or is it Ivory? It almost looks like Bone to me.
 Do you have a shot of the business end?

I asume that the patch on the butt plate was a repair to the worn thru end of the butt plate.

Tim M Thanks for sharring this wounderful piece with us.

Dave B

[rich pierce]

I meant no harm with comments on the carving.
Interesting period repairs on the guard and buttplate.

[Ken G]

Tim,
You know Southern guns are my love but I wanted to say thanks for the pics for us all to enjoy!  Wonderful gun.
Ken

[don getz]

Tim....I did not mean to "slander" the gun, just said it didn't look right to me.  The carving on the butt just is not "great"
carving, not up to the standards that one normally sees on a jager.  I am not a great student of the jager, and I think
Stophel's interpretation might have a lot more credence, interesting gun nontheless.......Don

[Stophel]

Not every German gun is out of a royal collection.  There are a lot of guns that have less than exemplary carving.  It seems every little town had its share of gunsmiths, all doing their own thing, from the basic, even qualifying as crude, to the sublime.

[timM]

I would have to agree that the Bold Incise is  "A Typical"  The lockplate carvings do lend themselves to the typical use of Rococo.  Maybe a stylized shell ?  I think more likely the tang into the lockplate carving to be Acanthus leaf foliage.  Something I have seen before.

What I find charming is the resemblance to a transitional rifle.  The ornamentation is in keeping with American rifles and a little less Jager than most Jagers that I have seen.

Gentlemen, I meant no personal offense and there is none taken.  I sometimes let my Irish bubble to the top.

The alternate material in the star is typical bone.  The bore diameter is a little over .60 and this piece is a flint conversion.

tim

[Stophel]

Well, the acanthus leaf theme is very typical, I've just never seen it carved around the lock panels that way.

[Acer Saccharum]

Dig it.

The stars are not directly opposite each other. Just for you builders worrying about symmetry.

Tom

[timM]

I think that some of the most pleasing design of ornamentation lacks symmetry.  It seems that S and C scroll lends itself to this.  tim

[Evil Monkey]

Dig it.

The stars are not directly opposite each other. Just for you builders worrying about symmetry.

Tom

That's because the cheek piece breaks the symmetry between the two sides. The stars are placed correctly (IMO) for the configuration on each side of the stock. Symmetry is used as a form of balance. If the cheek side star was moved back or the lockside star moved ahead they would not be conducive to good design and balanse for their respective side.

[Stophel]

I gave up on symmetry long ago (asymmetrical stuff used to absolutely drive me nuts!).  "Balance" is what you're looking for.   

[Leanin Chair]

Didn't see anyone reply about the caplock.  This one has obviously been converted from a flinter.

[Stophel]

It's soooo common that it's pretty much expected, so no one says much about it (unless it's still flint, then it's pointed out because you have something there!).

[Daryl]

I'd say it was around 1760 or so.  Dating German guns can be difficult.   .

  I don't think it's a converted flint, but then, I know little about such pieces. I do know no one made a percussion in 1760.  I'd always assumed swivel breeches came about a good spell after 1800.

[Stophel]

Wenders are as old as flintlocks. 

By 1800, the type of decoration on this gun was very passe'.  You will see lots of checkering, usually not much carving, and when they are carved, it is often in an almost English style, with roses.  Neoclassical is the word for post 1800.

[burningprince]

       Stophel if it was the 1760's it has been fiddled with percussion wasn't used until the 1830's.

[Ron Scott]

The lock close up photo clearly shows the filled frizzen support screw and spring holes.

[mr. no gold]

Wonder if that percussion conversion wasn't done here in America? This is one grand rifle!
Dick