Frizzen

[b bogart]

Alright Fellas I hardened and tempered my frizzen this morning and it throws a good shower of sparks, I am so relieved! Now the frizzen won't snap all the way open. I think the spring may be a little too strong. Can I grind the frizzen tail a little or what should I do?? It's a Siler (large) and I am trying my best to get it done to shoot my new rifle Wednesday. Ordinarily I'd look in the aren't a big selection of them yet. I am patiently waiting on them but looking for help in the mean time.
Help this rookie please!
Thanks!
Bruce

[Dave B]

Bruce,
You want to wait on the thining the spring just yet. I had one that looked like it was not opening all of the way and it was actually rebouding back into a half open possition. You can test it by coloring the bottm of the stop with a soft lead pencil then use a piece of card stock to hold under it at the contact point on the frizzen spring. Firing the lock will leave a pencil lead mark on the paper if it is not then you need to pollish the bejesus out of both surfaces. If this is not enough then you will need take alittle off the lug of the frizzen. This is the point where the frizzend contacts the spring and in later locks they used rollers. You want to move the radius closer to the pan. This will do two things. It will cause the frizzen to lift quicker and reduce spring pressure. Note that you want to go slow a little can go a long way with this. It is possible to remove too much material so that you wont have enough pressure to keep it from rebounding back and forth. The frizzens shown here are from the Siler lock. The left is the standard, the right is the improved geometry version. You can remove the material shown in the bottom illustration to make the standard frizzen into the improved version.

[sz]

Well, try turning the flint over.  If that's not something that helps, you can grind and re-polish the cam of the frizzen foot down a bit.  Only go about .015" to start with, and see how it works.
You should polish the top of the frizzen spring to a bright finish, and the foot of the frizzen too.

[Dennis Glazener]

That's strange, if it was ok before you hardened/tempered it, check to make sure its not binding on the barrel. The heat treatment may have changed the dimensions and caused it to bind.

I don't think I would grind any off the tail. I would polish all bearing surfaces first (i.e. pivot pin/where it rides the feather spring) Lastly if the polishing didn't correct it you might be able to compress the spring somewhat to take a little of the tension off. Be careful not to break it!

For what its worth,
Dennis

[b bogart]

I did try to turn the flint over, no luck. It may have bound up before, but I did not put a flint in and snap it because I knew the frizzen was soft and did not want to gouge it. I can put a spring vise on the spring, take some tension off and the frizzen snaps open on impact with the flint. I'll try polishing next. If I need to compress the spring a bit how do I go about it?
Thanks from the unknowing!
Bruce

[Tim Crosby]

 Bruce,
  Before you take anything off polish, polish, polish, any contact or bearing serface you have. Take the frizzen off and get the sides and the bridal, loosen up the screw thru the frizzen.

Tim C.

PS: Use some lube on it maybe a little graphite if you have it.

[Sam Everly]

When i tune a lock i polish the toe and top of the spring as slick as i can get it . Grind the face of the frizzen a little on a belt sander but keep it cool. After heat treating i always hit the face on the sander . Then lube the toe and spring with some motor oil . Spark it a few times it should get better by the 3rd or so time . I like to lube every thing with some STP and grease mixure (50/50) it stays on better .       

[Dave B]

Just one more thought. Just as one wants the insides of the lock not to hang up on the lock plate, the same goes for the frizzen spring. When you take off the frizzen spring are there any signs of the springs contacting the lock plate any where along the top leaf? You can smoke the face of the lock plate using a candle or small oil lamp with the spring off then put it back into position and operate the frizzen. It will show any place the spring is hitting the plate. If you really want to be anal about the fit of the frizzen to spring contact poing use some prushian blue compound to identify the distribution of contact between the surfaces. You would be surprised to find out that alot of times only a small part of the frizzen lug is hitting the spring causing a higer point of pressure verses a broad total contact distributed point of pressure. This also goes for the main spring tumbler contact point.

[northmn]

You have heard a lot of ideas on tuning.  Most are valid.  One of my locks stays open if the flint is too short, the top of the hammer binds on the frizzen.  I like them to almost touch the frizzen when in half cock.  You do not want the frizzen to bounce back after opening, a sign of too weak a spring.

DP

[Jim Chambers]

If all the polishing and oiling doesn't work follow Dave B's drawing for moving the pivot point on the foot of the frizzen.  But, do not shorten that part of the frizzen or weaken the spring.  That would just complicate the problem.

[b bogart]

It seems as if the flint is "catching on the bottom of the face of the frizzen. It is not a rebound situation. It doesn't open. Tomorrow I'll try a little of DaveB's solution. If I mess it up Mr Chambers maybe able to sell me a new frizzen. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Thanks to all for the advise!
Bruce

[ironwolf]

  Bruce are you sure the frizzen is truly hard enough?  A soft frizzen will stall in just the manner you speak of.  Is the face gouging deeply?  A sign of softness.
  Since the lock worked before you heat treated it,  I would suspect in-addequate hardness.

 Kevin

[b bogart]

Good and hard Ironwolf. That polishing and lubrication thing is showing some real promise! I need to do some more of it tho! It snaps open and no rebound but needs a little more tweeking! Thanks to all! Maybe I can shoot it tomorrow for the first time!
Bruce

[Dphariss]

Be sure its not going full forward and bouncing back. This happens a lot with the less sophisticated locks.

Dan

[b bogart]

Actually I was just down in the shop and snapped it a couple times, sparks very well and opened like a charm. No rebound! More employment work tonight so I may not get it tuned to my liking, but I may shoot a couple rounds thru it tomorrow as it is! Wish me luck. I need it!
Bruce