Building a lock from scratch

[SuperCracker]

are there any books, tutorials, videos, etc. etc you guys could point me to that deal with building a lock from scratch? Not from castings but forging & shaping it from scratch. I know there has to have been some made I just can't find it.

Haven't been able to find much relevant quality info searching the forums and googlesphere.

[rich pierce]

There was a pamphlet by Pryor Mountain Bill back in the 70s or 80s.  There is also lock making information in the JHAT series of booklets.  Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology.  Out of print.

[jrb]

There's this old thread here.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=18929.msg177747#msg177747

[Mark Elliott]

Don't forget my recent post.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=33301.0

[Mark Elliott]

I don't think there are any "How to" books or videos although there are certainly a number of folks around who have done it.   I think that as long as you are a relatively good blacksmith and bench machinist,  it isn't that much of a problem.   You just have to do it.   Finding the time and energy for it is my problem.  It is a lot of work and paying projects have to take priority.   If I had the time, I would spend the time to make the dies first.   My reason is that making the dies is not as strenuous work (it is sitting work that you stretch out over time) that will save you labor in forging and filing in the end.   The dies can just be tedious to make as you are using chisels and rifflers removing a little bit of material at a time.   Of course, you could cheat with a die grinder.     The lock would still be hand made, wouldn't it?

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

The tutorial on making a gunlock is still a work in progress.  Someday it may be finished, but there is no hurry.  It takes the gunlock about 1/2 way so far, but it does give a start.  Here is the topic address:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=26825.0

Add to this the one on making a frizzen spring in the tutorial section.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=25950.0

Can't do any more work on this as I am soon going on overseas assignment.

Jim

[gunmaker]

Brockways book "re-creating the ML shotgun"  shows pic's of lock making--and a bunch a other good info  40 bucks

[David R. Pennington]

Some of the tutorials on here (see Jim's link above) are probably the best info you will find on scratch building locks outside of spending a lot of time in Colonial Williamsburg gun shop.

[inlikeflint]

I  have a book on building a cap lock I bought about 6 mo ago,  illustrated, 75 pages probably 8 1/2 x11.
Writen by Colin Stolzer, 2008.  It seems to cover it pretty well, but since I have never attemped building one,  I am not the expert.  John

[FDR]

Take an old lock like you want to build and copy it.  I did and you can also.  After 50 years mine still works perfectly. I never made another and it is a "lot of work"
Starrett makes some fine flat ground tool stock that can be used as raw material.  After you make a few this way and get bored you can take a magnet and go down to the river and find you some iron sand, make you own steel and then......  I have seen a Jananese sword made that way so anything is possible with enough "want too".

[David R. Pennington]

I often tackle a job just to see if I can. I may never do it again but at least I know I have mastered the skill sets required in case I ever have to. I spoke to an old watchmaker years ago, (now deceased) who said as part of his training he was required to build a watch movement. It was the only one he ever built completely, though he repaired thousands.

[inlikeflint]

I got the book because some day I too may try it.  With availability of all the lock parts I am thinking toward using a chambers tumbler, sear and springs to make a much older type of lock that is currently not available/   john

[andy49]

I like John's idea and I think instead of making all parts from scratch, why not piece together existing parts with some modification, into a historical lock that is not available commercially. This could cut down time and tools required.
I have been accumulating parts to do this.
Andy

[helwood]

I'm with David R.  Making a lock from scratch is a work of passion and you want the challenge.  Reviewing Jim's tutorial is a good Idea. Currently I am working on locks for a brace of Spanish Miquelet pistols c.1730.  These are not french flintlocks technically they are a snaphaunce they don't have a tumbler,they have a horizontal sear release, but these use a frizzen similar to the french.  There was a strong influence to everything after Phillip took the thrown.  He was Louis XIV Grandson and took the thrown after the War of Succesion/Queen Ann's War.  I started with a lenk of anchor chain/my source of high quality wrought iron.  My spring stock is W1 drill stock.  And after first carving parts in wood first, the frizzen looked alot like a Large Siler frizzen,so I called Jim and ordered 2.  I don't have the skills yet to blacksmith the 2 bends found in the frizzen.  By the way the amount of time it took just to make all the parts for the 2 locks was 4 1/2 months still working on them engraving and heat treating parts.  I applaud anyone taking on the project, take notes daily and lots of photos as you go it really helps you pick up where you left off the last time you worked on it.  I still haven't figured out how to post pictures on the forum and I can't impose on others.  It could be my New Years resolution.       Hank Elwood

[CHARLY]

well
I ,ll be !@*%&@ !thought I was alone in building a flintlock from scratch  --!
 have built and grossly OVER-estimated  THE DIMENSIONS  of frizzen /hammer mainspring
etc
been at it for months --bush workshop --mild steel scrap plate --
but fiercely determined
 made so many errors --parts far TOO BIG -CLUMSY /UGLY
 THOSE  17th /18 cen olde crafts -men  had time and patience --took great skill -

begged for blueprints for 3 months --got a lot of fotos /websites
track of the wolf --etc
but no-one willing to dismantle his lock & fotograph each part --with a inch rule
 no luck ---
waited --struggled --got it working eventually --but flash pan was rather huge
---nearly burnt me eyeball---
had to scale down --learn by mistakes probably the best way /?
THEN MAGIC --- just when I was slipping off the cliff edge --chap on a  British forum
 posted fotos of an  AMERICAN BOOK ( IRONIC ) --
HEAVEN --- all I wanted ---every detailed dimension/drawing blueprint -a masterpiece !
but ---rather expensive --- excess of 220 us $ with postage to darkest Africa --beyond me for now -will dream on--

saving my pensioners pennies ---one day ---I can build it dead accurate
ok --see ya ---

[Chris Treichel]

yes, this is the right place

[shortbarrel]

Two wrought iron railroad spikes will make a english or german  quality lock. Takes a forge, tools you make to make the tools to make the lock. large and small files and a good vice. You can do it ,if you have patience  and lots of it.

[Bob Roller]

Two wrought iron railroad spikes will make a english or german  quality lock. Takes a forge, tools you make to make the tools to make the lock. large and small files and a good vice. You can do it ,if you have patience  and lots of it.

Patience yes,the patience of a cigar store indian will be about right.
 Bob Roller

[helwood]

Charly,  I understand wanting to build locks.  Another source of full size locks is the Rifle Shoppe in OK.  One of the things you might check out is the "Golden Mean"  the 3:5 ratio during this period. The guilds followed it pretty close so with Fibonacci dividers you can figure it out.  But I must say it is not written in stone but it gets you on the road.  If you get the chance you should try comming to Bowling Green Ky for the 10 day classes.  It's the only place I know of that has so many people on the same page,Flintlocks.  The Miquelet locks I'm making are only from Ricard Marti's book photos.  Good luck,    Hank Elwood

[CHARLY]

Guys,

The tutorial on making a gunlock is still a work in progress.  Someday it may be finished, but there is no hurry.  It takes the gunlock about 1/2 way so far, but it does give a start.  Here is the topic address:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=26825.0

Add to this the one on making a frizzen spring in the tutorial section.

 Hello James Everret --
saw your photos on building a flintlock from scrap /scratch --
I was blown away --by your supeb craftsmanship /stunning photography
 so impressed was I --that I have begun all over again --scrapped my 4 disasters-
am now following  your masterful fotos --
scary ---the size of the detachable flah pan --had me stunned -
I got it all wrong --guessing dimensions off  downloaded  IMAGES  for th last year
was ambitious /foolhardy all failed /big clumsy ugly result!
I wonder if you could supply me with any dimensions of the completed parts you made ?
 
 I live in  Central  Africa --only internet is my inspiration to get this muzzleloader working
its only the plate I thought --but now I realised -its a mammoth task to get accuracy
 thanku for the inspiration -
 charly-
 

Can't do any more work on this as I am soon going on overseas assignment.

Jim

[CHARLY]

I'm with David R.  Making a lock from scratch is a work of passion and you want the challenge.  Reviewing Jim's tutorial is a good Idea. Currently I am working on locks for a brace of Spanish Miquelet pistols c.1730.  These are not french flintlocks technically they are a snaphaunce they don't have a tumbler,they have a horizontal sear release, but these use a frizzen similar to the french.  There was a strong influence to everything after Phillip took the thrown.  He was Louis XIV Grandson and took the thrown after the War of Succesion/Queen Ann's War.  I started with a lenk of anchor chain/my source of high quality wrought iron.  My spring stock is W1 drill stock.  And after first carving parts in wood first, the frizzen looked alot like a Large Siler frizzen,so I called Jim and ordered 2.  I don't have the skills yet to blacksmith the 2 bends found in the frizzen.  By the way the amount of time it took just to make all the parts for the 2 locks was 4 1/2 months still working on them engraving and heat treating parts.  I applaud anyone taking on the project, take notes daily and lots of photos as you go it really helps you pick up where you left off the last time you worked on it.  I still haven't figured out how to post pictures on the forum and I can't impose on others.  It could be my New Years resolution.       Hank Elwood

 THANKU  Hank --the advice is well appreciated--
I have the bull /( lock ) by the horns ---and have received a battering --but am un-deterred
got to get it right --Everrets work has me trembling in awe of such skill!
I see you also ----are a victim of trying to post your photos on this forum -
join the club ----I sympathise --its agonising /frustrating as $#*! --
 photobucket --method --even on  European gun forums ---creates a lot of controversy
 hot air ---I have grumbled /got nowhere for months now --and cannot progress if I cannot show my work problems ---in images ---

but other sites have a quick -click -on file --upload hi speed system
thank goodness
regards - Charly

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Some more information on this topic can be seen on an older topic "Scratch-built locks".  

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=18929.msg177747#msg177747

This ones does show a bit more about that tricky task of getting a double bend into the cock forging, and the jig used to perform that task.

Also, here is more information on making and using a tumbler mill.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31262.msg300079#msg300079

Jim

[James Wilson Everett]

For Charly,

My apology, but a ruler is almost never seen in my shop!  Perhaps my work could be improved if I did use one!  I almost always just copy an existing piece as can be seen in the tutorials.  For the lockplate in the half done tutorial on making a flintlock, the lockplate is 5-1/2 inches (14 cm) long.  I hope that this can give a scale.

This lock is the proper size for a long rifle, a pistol lock would be a bit smaller, 5 inches, and a musket lock would be a bit larger, 6-1/2 inches.

I hope that this can give some scale to the photos.

Jim

[gunmaker]

Charly,  Do you have photobucket ?  With the help of youngest son I'm able to do a few things with this @!*% computor.  So, I copy my pic's off camera (never used phone)  to the computor into picasa (its free)  then go to your photobk't acc't.  Click on library, create an album if you want with a name "lock making" maybe, whatever.  Click upload photos, then click choose photos or video, you should get a small screen that shows your operating system, desktop, pictures  a bunch a stuff.  click my pictures, select that pic or pic's open it--it should go automaticaly to your photobkt album.  Now go back to photobkt (oh it helps to have both windows open, just go back and forth)  put curser on your pic and see a gear wheel,  , a small menu will drop down, select share links, another screen pops up, choose  IMG on right side, it turns yellow, close that window.  Now go back to our site and open your topic, type some comments.hit enter 2 times--to give a space.---NOW  hit Ctrl and V together---zap pic flys to your open topic....I hope.  AND I hope this makes sence. Without my web designer son I'd be in dark as well.  good luck...........Tom

[Yancey von Yeast]

I built this one from scratch along with several others.  It is all about perseverance and elbow grease.  I'm not sure that from a financial perspective, it gets you ahead on the price of the gun.  Each hand made lock that I have built took longer than it took to build the gun itself.