Author Topic: Open nose (Read 1972 times)

Mike Lyons · « **on:** August 13, 2018, 06:12:59 AM »

This is a job. I’m using a couple tutorials and advice posts on here but wow!! I’ve ruined a lot of brass sheet before getting here. I’ve ditched the total wrap around. This particular rifle has a closed end but I wanted an open one just because.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2018, 09:19:32 AM »

Change of plans midstream. Whatever this tool is makes bending brass easier..

Mikecooper · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2018, 01:12:44 PM »

I have a pliers exactly like that. Have had it for years. Looks like you have done a good job on the nose so far. Good wood to metal fit!

45-110 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:14:09 PM »

getting a tight wrap will require several anneals to keep the brass soft enough to get the wrap to follw the wood contours and minimize spring back.
best
kw

rich pierce · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:23:13 PM »

The fore end wood looks a bit ample. Maybe that’s how you want it but this is your last chance to get it just the way you want.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:35:37 PM »

Thanks Rick and 45-110. I might be able to take a tad more off but I've inlayed the entire piece all the way around and I have a good fit. I'm thinking that I'm not experienced enough to adjust it without possibly creating a disaster. Are you saying that I might need to take some more off the bottom to show a bit more of the ram rod? 45-110, what is your process of annealing brass to make it softer? I've annealed high power rifle cartridges for reloading with success but I'm not familiar with the process for making sheet brass easier to work with. I tried a couple times last night but I didn't get what I was after. Do you heat it to red and let it cool or heat it and quench it in water?

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:50:37 PM »

Yep, heat to red and quench in water. Probably going to take several times to get that much bending around done. I believe the reference to " ample" is in refence to the overall dimension of your forestock. I personally can't tell if it is 'ample" or not. Speaking of "ample" I used to have this girl friend.....

well that's another story for another time.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2018, 07:28:05 PM »

There are two things that the image above with the pliers, and in the background, the Rupp nose piece...

I) the wings are separate pieces to the actual nose piece, joined at the first engraved vertical line
II) the end is closed with a piece of brass of a slightly different alloy brazed/soldered to the sheet

rich pierce · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2018, 07:46:38 PM »

By “ample” I meant the foreend on your build does not taper to a thin edge where it slopes up to meet the barrel. On the original pictured in the post, it looks smoothly tapered up to meet the side flat. In yours there is more of a bulge at the top of the foreend.

That’s fine if you’re happy with your plan for the gun and this reflects your preference. I agree it is nerve wracking to fit a nose cap to a very thin- edged foreend.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2018, 08:41:54 PM »

Brother Vet, you are doing a great job! Take your time. As for annealing, you can quench in cold water, or let it cool naturally. I put mine on a black chunk of something my buddy got from Rio Grande for soldering gold and silver. It retains the heat, while preventing scorching on your worktop. Actually makes annealing easier to see the color.

As you know, I am also building that same MBS kit. The kit has a nice nose piece, but that piece has no addition for the flames, nor does it have a crease for the RR. It is so short, top to bottom, that I think it does not need the crease. I have a LOT of wood to cut down before I start fitting it!

I guess I will have to silver-solder some "flames" onto the muzzle tip!

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2018, 09:13:46 PM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on August 13, 2018, 06:50:37 PM

Yep, heat to red and quench in water. Probably going to take several times to get that much bending around done. I believe the reference to " ample" is in refence to the overall dimension of your forestock. I personally can't tell if it is 'ample" or not. Speaking of "ample" I used to have this girl friend..... well that's another story for another time.

I’ve been told twice to stop the buttstock ballooning. I’m convinced it has some sort of connection with fat bottom girls. Craig, That nose piece that came with the kit is way off and will put a huge gap between the RR and stock. The star in the kit is good to use as an example to make a larger one and maybe as a Chinese star or skipping object while near a creek. I understand the original Herman Rupp 1793 rifle has a closed nose piece. I’m changing it to open. I plan to add the flames separately and blending the line in somehow with a splice. Thanks for the comments everyone.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2018, 09:19:34 PM »

Maybe that is why my brain told me to get several sheets of brass! Was wondering how big the gap would be - I prefer the type you ae building, with the RR about half exposed. I DO want to enclose the end grain, however, and also want to make the "flames" a solid part of the cap, if I can.
Gonna be a perfeshional brass man time I get done!

Mr. Bubbles · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2018, 11:32:43 PM »

About 1/3 RR coverage is about right for most of the distance, and as the stock is thinning toward the MC forward of the first pipe, about 1/5-1/4 coverage is about right. It's a very gentle and subtle transition. By ample, I think Rich was also referring to your web thickness, as well as the "cheeks". While you can flare them slightly to emphasize the muzzle flare on a swamped barrel, they shouldn't get too puffy. Why do you want to wrap them in to the barrel channel? If you do this, any metal inside the barrel channel will necessitate removing wood to make room for them, and create something of a radius of a curve when it bends back down. For Lehigh guns, the operative word is thin, even for a Rupp, which is among the more robust ones.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2018, 12:24:46 AM »

Thanks Mr. Bubbles. I wasn’t going to try it and I’m only doing it because I don’t want my next gun to be a first attempt. I’d like to try all the difficult Lehigh traits. I’m going as close as I can to the Herman Rupp rifle mainly because it includes inlaying wire, enlaying that star that curves everywhere, the wrist, unique carving and the v shaped forend etc. If I burger it up, I’d like it to have happened on an earlier rifle.

David Rase · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2018, 03:33:37 AM »

A little late to the dance as I have been out of town but here is a link to a tutorial I wrote a couple of years ago. I just reloaded the photos.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37087.msg355972#msg355972
David

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2018, 04:10:51 AM »

David,

Thanks for restoring the photos in the tutorial. I know that's a lot of work. Much appreciated.

-Ron

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2018, 04:18:26 AM »

Wow David. Thank You!!

Mr. Bubbles · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2018, 10:42:46 PM »

There are just so many nuances and difficulties to Lehigh guns, it's tough to nail them all, especially on your first swing at it. Most guys need to do about 5 of them before they finally get it right. I did the same thing on my first Lehigh gun, which was a Stophel Long. I tried to do all the stuff I'd never done before, and that which might possibly be on a Lehigh. That way I would at least have some experience.

I honestly think the trickiest things to get right are the arc(s) of the belly curve, and the roman nose. Easy to get those radiuses so they just don't look quite right. The most common mistake is to make the belly curve deeper closer to the wrist than it should be, or, to make it a constant radius the whole way. The comb is similar, but more nuanced.

The wrist profile / shape(s) and lock tail transition to the wrist is the other one. A lot of 1st time Lehighers make the wrist too low, and coming upwards like a Lancaster does. A Lehigh wrist is much higher, and the nose of the comb is a very small step down to the wrist. It's tricky. And of course, every original maker in Lehigh County (at one time there were as many as 150 of them operating) did them all a little different. We just hear the most about the most famous ones (such as Rupp) and think that Rupp's architecture is the way they ALL did it, which is of course not true.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #18 on:** August 15, 2018, 07:34:10 AM »

I don’t expect it to be right in many eyes. I’m just trying to take all the advice I get and make it look like the pictures. I’m really trying not to turn a $1000 gun into a $200 stack of parts. I am taking a liking to this style and If I do another Lehigh, I’m going to go to a museum and try to look at an original. Maybe a road trip to PA or somewhere. They have had several occasions in Charleston, WV where culture and history brought out a few original long rifles to look at and even hold. I’ve been in the storage section of that building gathering WWI things for a presentation and saw some of the longrifles but, I wasn’t at all interested in them at the time. I work in the capital building and know most everyone there. I keep thinking that I need to go talk to the commissioner but then I think that I’m not really well versed enough with the rifles, I won’t even know what I’m looking for or at. Hopefilully the show this Friday will change that some. Anyhow, here’s my nose piece. I’m more than pleased with it.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #19 on:** August 15, 2018, 01:07:40 PM »

Nicely done, my friend, nicely done! Now come do mine for me.....

BOB HILL · « **Reply #20 on:** August 15, 2018, 03:35:28 PM »

I think you've done a nice job on your nosecap. Thanks for sharing the trip. Look forward to meeting you Friday
Bob

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Author Topic: Open nose (Read 1972 times)

Mikecooper