AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: hanshi on December 02, 2011, 09:34:17 PM
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I hope this is the correct place for a dumb question.
I have a 20 plus year old Traditions DeerHunter (cheapest model), 24" barrel, .50. I would like to put on brass furniture and make it look nicer and more traditional/authentic. Though it's a loner/backup/bad weather/knock around gun it is pretty much blemish free.
I cut off the rubber butt pad and shaved a bit of wood off the comb for a little more drop. This slightly shortened the heel to toe distance as I knew it would. The butt is pretty flat and not curved as I would prefer.
Question (dumb): What is the best direction to take with this project? I don't know if it's possible to get what I want with the steps I've taken. Cost is a factor so a suitable pre-carved stock would have to be plain but inlet for barrel, ramrod and lock. Using the existing stock would require a reconfiguration of the butt to a more crescent shape. I'm not sure I have the ability to do that. What's the best bet at this point?(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi599.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt74%2Fhanshi_photo%2FPICT0360-1.jpg&hash=8e79e09392b27eef234255e34d9f95b1e1106d6d)
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Glue and screw/dowel a piece of wood to the butt end (trying to match wood and grain as much as possible). Do your buttplate work, then refinish, staining very dark to hide the transition....
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It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
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It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
I do know that. It's just that I'd like to have it a wee bit easier on the eye. I guess it deserves it too because of all the deer it has harvested. 8)
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Hanshi . the deer stocker is nothing but a CVA bobcat .
re stock it to your liking
Mike is correct that it will never be more then what it is . but it can be alot nicer .
here are some ideas for you
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy242%2Fcaptchee%2Fflatlandersbobcat005.jpg&hash=042edfa6a4bd9e7e6e660352100c47d7b9105b6e)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy242%2Fcaptchee%2FAug0601.jpg&hash=7d6125bc7796f33d8eb77ce33de470d421147f99)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy242%2Fcaptchee%2Fgun%2520stock%2520artical%2FDSC00974.jpg&hash=4f88e6b97ecc49e946c2ae771aa96bdc5cf34b76)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy242%2Fcaptchee%2Fgun%2520stock%2520artical%2FPicture031.jpg&hash=95b94ad15a25e7efd00eb79685710a811a84a2bb)
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Year ago, I think it was in Dixie's annual Blackpowder journal, a fella took a CVA or Traditions and made some changes to it to have a more authentic look and feel. You may be able to track a copy down.
Coryjoe
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It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
I very seldom make a response on this forum ( usually I ask questions) But I take some great offense at your reply. This kind of condescension to a question really gets to me. The reason is this: if we (you) want to have newcomers to the sport, why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer. It would seem to me that the best way would be to encourage these folks to pursue the art with whatever is within their means. After all, we can't be as good as you.
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It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
True, but a good way for a novice to learn and increase his skill level and there is always that next project to apply these learnins on.Dig into it. Lil Joe
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If it were mine, I would consider shaping the butt to my liking and either hammering out a piece of heavy brass w/o a heel return or simply finishing w/o any butt plate. Done this aeveral times when shortening rifles for kids and it doesn't look bad on a simple rifle and puts it to further use.
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Quote from: Mike Brooks on December 02, 2011, 06:19:07 PM
It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
"I very seldom make a response on this forum ( usually I ask questions) But I take some great offense at your reply. This kind of condescension to a question really gets to me. The reason is this: if we (you) want to have newcomers to the sport, why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer. It would seem to me that the best way would be to encourage these folks to pursue the art with whatever is within their means. After all, we can't be as good as you."
+1
rudyc
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I have contacted Mike Brooks directly with newbie questions, and via this forum and he has been helpful and encouraging. Anyone who take the time to put together such an online tutorial as he has wants to help folks.
Coryjoe
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I would agree Cory. I have had tons of help from Mike. Some people are just a little more to the point in expressing truth and some are a little more tender about hearing it. There are a couple more on this board whose posts will singe your short hairs much worse than Mike. Could this just be spillover from another site perhaps?
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"Could this just be spillover from another site perhaps?"
And that other site is a place I no longer go. Newcomers are the lifeblood of any sport and I've been pleased to see that everyone is treated with respect on this site. True, Hanshi is no newcomer but not everyone out there has the time, skills, tools, space, or inclination to build a custom. Altering a factory gun is a good way to learn. Anyone not shooting a scoped inline is headed in the right direction in my book and deserving of our consideration and assistance.
I sympathize with Mr. Brooks. I spent a fair number of years making my living as a gunsmith but I never once considered limiting myself to custom muzzleloaders. I'd have starved to death. I helped my father make them and watched as he eventually sold rifles like the one in the attached photo for barely more than the cost of the parts and materials. Let's face it, customs are an expensive item in a limited market. Every shooter packing a factory made not historically correct muzzleloader today is a potential customer tomorrow. Let's not drive them away with disparaging statements about the gun they have.
Storm(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv415%2Fjhansen1951%2FPercussion1.jpg&hash=a330045ca4033c71eceff74171d6db07f5f5da8c)(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv415%2Fjhansen1951%2FGuns014.jpg&hash=0cc43cafcd10b7654cf1c283e0b0ac736a088242)
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Sometimes Mike gives some pretty blunt advice! Most of the time it should be seriously considered, IMO. Hanshi can take care of his own feelings. He's a big boy (or girl, after all it is the internet):)
I contemplated a make over on my DeerHunter but decided in the end it was just a #$@* hunt. In order to fit a conventional butt plate, the stock will have to be shortened to the tune of the thickness of the existing rubber pad and the depth of the curve of the new butt plate. Of course, you will be able to add in the thickness of the new butt plate, but do ya see where I'm going here?
Next, there is the trigger group which is a one piece TG and trigger assembly. You will have to cut the existing guard off and still find an aesthetically pleasing way to keep the trigger and it's mechanism in place. If you want set triggers, that's a whole new problem since the DH lock does not have a fly!
You need an underrib and thimbles, etc.
I found solutions to all those problems but in the end realized that for a few bucks more I could build an all new rifle! In the end I settled for a french grey finish on the metal and put it back on the rack.
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Guys
Please don't make this personal.Mike stated his opinion and he is welcome to do that.Hanshi is welcome to take what he wants from everyones responces.If a poster has a problem with what is posted he is welcome to bring it to the moderators attention.
I have to say after being a moderator for a while I have discovered it is impossible to honestly educate people without getting others noses out of joint.Someone always takes it personal.We welcome that kind of honest debate even if it gets a litttle rough sometimes.That being said here at the ALR we are not going to allow the personal attacks that frequent others boards.Feel free to hotly debate any subject you wish just don't make it personal.
Mitch Yates
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It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
I very seldom make a response on this forum ( usually I ask questions) But I take some great offense at your reply. This kind of condescension to a question really gets to me. The reason is this: if we (you) want to have newcomers to the sport, why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer. It would seem to me that the best way would be to encourage these folks to pursue the art with whatever is within their means. After all, we can't be as good as you.
You guys can kiss my (foot). The guy asks how he can disguise a #$@* in the punch bowl. I tell him it will always be a #$@* in the punch bowl no matter what he does to it.. I am entitled to an opinion just as every one else is.
Good Lord, You can buy a good barrel for $200 bucks and a lock for $125 , and spend $50 on a piece of wood and make the rest of the components from scratch. If you can't save and afford that as a beginner then you better find a different hobby. cripes, I learned to build guns working a minimum wage job.
Let's all go have a cry over our freakin' little hurt feelings...... :'(
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Good on ya, Mike. Looking at the examples Captchee put up and knowing what little it costs to get a piece of plain maple with a barrel inlet, I'm wondering why that isn't the best option. When ready to move on to something different, why not take the parts one already has in the form of a "factory" gun and restock it? And then there are the little metal bits--pretty cheap to buy if that's the way to go. There's a lock and a barrel in that gun. It needs a hunk of wood and someone willing to take a small leap. IMHO.
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As I said , I cant disagree with Mike . Frankly no mater what you do , your still going to have a CVA or a traditions , Jukar or other .
But frankly IMO there is so much one can learn from re doing such a rifle be it from a blank or a pre carve with inlet barrel .
Simply put folks have to have some skill to do what mike suggests , a lot of folks don’t . so they spend 300+ in basics then cant finish . Either they just get overwhelmed or they lose hart .
By redoing one of theses rifles , they still have a rifle they can shoot while the build a new stock . They get to learn to inlet , make parts , shape , form , carve …. The list goes on and on .
The other thing is they can stimulate their creativity
They have everything they need right there
But in the end they still have the same make of rifle they started with . Same quality of lock , triggers , barrel . But they have gained in experience for a minimal cost .
Personally, again what Mike said was true . No one should get hurt feelings over it , just do what you want to do , its your gun
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I agree.
I have this Jukar that is a good firing rifle, but it just doesn't have the snap. I have tried a few rifles. They all got scrapped. I was just too inexperienced.
I plan on getting a pre-inlet stock, and inletting it all in. I have been learning, reading, getting DVDs. I have seen where I messed up before. Little things here, and there. They all added up to a project that went away.
I want this one to be a shooter. If it turns out to be a looker, all the better. One day, I want to do a rifle like I have seen, but I want some behind me before I lay out the big bucks. I have gotten better at a lot of things. I have been getting parts ready. Castings. Stuff like that. I am looking forward to this.
One day, I will be good enough to go full tilt.
Just need practice.
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OK Hanshi - Mikes right " It is what it is" and that means you can"t hurt the D@#n Thing. No matter what you do it"ll likely still shoot ;)
That said, it offers an inexpensive gun to learn on.
It was asked 'What to do?" So let see what we can do with it.
For starters, you cut off the recoil pad. Most of these had long pulls anyway. No butt plate will be OK or fit a plate of your making or a sand cast plate. Remember flatter will equal less felt recoil but in a 50 cal pick what you like.
2nd, most factory guns have a ugly hump of wood in the stock just behind the breech. Cut down the wood and tang if need be.
Straighten out the top line of the wrist to be more parallel with the bottom line. Round out and carry the wrist back into the butt.
Cut down the and slim the comb till you easily see thru the sights. The front of the comb should be more pointed and not the big fat round as viewed from above.
The butt may have enough fat on it to carve out a little bit of a cheek piece.
Cut down and reshape those big fat lock panels.
Pick a trigger guard of your liking, file it up and inlet it. Just pick one that will span the old inlet. They are cheap from TOTW and anything will beat the stock one!
Consider casting a pewter nose cap. lots of good advice here on the subject.
Slim and round the forearm, top bottom and sides. Reveal a bit more than half the side barrel flat. Taper the bottom from the breech forward to the RR entry. Round it up bottom to top, rolling sides to almost knife edge at top by barrel.
Maybe add an under rib - could even be wooden
Scrape out a real hickory RR with a taper and swelled on the business end.
Look at some of the rebuild projects that have been posted in the past. Off the top of my head, one Lyman GPR by D. Taylor Sapergia stands out. There have been several others that really improved the fit and looks.
These are just some of the things you might do to make your rifle a bit more presentable on a budget. I bet you'll enjoy the project and learn a bunch - Then you'll be more confident if you choose to ever build one from scratch.
And remember, You can't hurt the D@#n thing ;D Just do it. Hope this helps .........................Lynn
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It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
I very seldom make a response on this forum ( usually I ask questions) But I take some great offense at your reply. This kind of condescension to a question really gets to me. The reason is this: if we (you) want to have newcomers to the sport, why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer. It would seem to me that the best way would be to encourage these folks to pursue the art with whatever is within their means. After all, we can't be as good as you.
You guys can kiss my (foot). The guy asks how he can disguise a #$@* in the punch bowl. I tell him it will always be a #$@* in the punch bowl no matter what he does to it.. I am entitled to an opinion just as every one else is.
Good Lord, You can buy a good barrel for $200 bucks and a lock for $125 , and spend $50 on a piece of wood and make the rest of the components from scratch. If you can't save and afford that as a beginner then you better find a different hobby. cripes, I learned to build guns working a minimum wage job.
Let's all go have a cry over our freakin' little hurt feelings...... :'(
Mike - you miss my point. I'm only saying that you should be encouraging someone that wants to learn - not disparaging their choice of the path. As to your costing out ($375.00) I live on less than $1100.00 per month (Social Security) so while it may be an insignificant amount to you, it is a great deal to me. My only option at this point is to buy the "#$@* in the punch bowl" and learn what I can. I apologize if I hurt your feelings and I hope that you can understand my point. I would love to be able to purchase a "non-#$@* in a punch bowl" but I think that you can see my dilemma. I stand by my statement that we should encourage learning, regardless of the available choices. Also, I will not kiss your.....
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No Mike, I won't kiss your foot or any other part of your anatomy. Your attitude is wrong. There's no other way to see it. Your unmentionables are in a wad because not everyone buys one of your guns. Not everybody can afford one or at the very least might be able to afford only one and a couple of lesser guns to boot. I was lucky. I grew up in the home of a man who began making replicas of original muzzleloaders in the 1950's. He rifled his own barrels. His stocks all started out as a slab of maple or cherry and he turned them into pieces of art. I witnessed the importation of the first factory muzzleloaders by Navy Arms, CVA, and others. I didn't like them because they weren't "right" and didn't look like what I was used to. But I bought a used CVA "Kentucky" with a two-piece stock and re-stocked it into something that looked "right" to me. Know what? It was a shooter. I won matches with it. Later on I bought a CVA Mountain Rifle kit and couldn't stand the screw holes in the forend cap or the screwed on ramrod ferrules. I cast on a new forend cap and made up new ferrules that I soldered to the rib. I altered the trigger guard and slimmed the excess wood from the stock. That was a shooter too. This was how I learned. I'm sorry you feel the need to dump on anyone who wants to modify a factory gun into something more suitable. I also know that I'll never order a gun from you because of your attitude. You shoot yourself in the foot with posts like the one I saw here.
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;D
It is what it is and always will be what it is no matter what you do to it.
I very seldom make a response on this forum ( usually I ask questions) But I take some great offense at your reply. This kind of condescension to a question really gets to me. The reason is this: if we (you) want to have newcomers to the sport, why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer. It would seem to me that the best way would be to encourage these folks to pursue the art with whatever is within their means. After all, we can't be as good as you.
You guys can kiss my (foot). The guy asks how he can disguise a #$@* in the punch bowl. I tell him it will always be a #$@* in the punch bowl no matter what he does to it.. I am entitled to an opinion just as every one else is.
Good Lord, You can buy a good barrel for $200 bucks and a lock for $125 , and spend $50 on a piece of wood and make the rest of the components from scratch. If you can't save and afford that as a beginner then you better find a different hobby. cripes, I learned to build guns working a minimum wage job.
Let's all go have a cry over our freakin' little hurt feelings...... :'(
;D
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Question (dumb): What is the best direction to take with this project? I don't know if it's possible to get what I want with the steps I've taken. Cost is a factor so a suitable pre-carved stock would have to be plain but inlet for barrel, ramrod and lock. Using the existing stock would require a reconfiguration of the butt to a more crescent shape. I'm not sure I have the ability to do that.
As to the original queston. What I would do is pick up an afforable piece of wood (OK, cheap) & see what you're made of as far as inlettilng of the lock, barrel & so on. You might surprise yourself. Remember while you attempt anything that time is of no concern, if it took you a year, so what, when you get it done you'll have to look for something else to do. It's one inlet at a time & by doing it this way you will have the original stock for a pattern AND you will have it to use if you feel your work isn't up to par. Plus you've got forums like this one to assist you.
Paul
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pecatonica river longrifles supply have some good pricing on their stocks figure out what style you want and check them out . you could always check out lumber supply stores for wood it's your build go the way you want if your looking at a particular school then go that way your only limited by yourself on what to build . as for the parts you already have they are not top self but the shoot well that's what matters . I buy what I can afford if its a cva Kentucky or what ever for $50 and then invest in a piece of wood and practice and come out with something I like yippee true you can winde up spending a lot of $ trying to redo one of these and still have a CVA worth $100 more with $200 in parts but your not building to sell your building for you. just watch out for the money pit once you start ;D been their done that but that's why its called learning. I would rather have spent $200 then $500 on parts and still have a $150 rifle. its all in the fun of doing if we did not enjoy the doing then where would this hobby/sport be?
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Your attitude is wrong. There's no other way to see it. Your unmentionables are in a wad because not everyone buys one of your guns
What a bunch of !@*%&@ bull roar. ::)
Buy REAL PARTS. Build a gun. Sell it for enough to buy another set of REAL PARTS. Sell again for the price of parts.....on and on till you can build a real gun. How do you think I and all the other guys that can build REAL guns got to where they are today? Nothing wrong with my attitude, it's the attitude that enables me to get the bills paid today. I guess it all depends if you just want to play around at this on the cheap and make ugly little guns out of ugly little donor guns, or learn to make real guns out of real parts.
I doubt I made more than the price of parts on the first dozen guns I built.
Everyone buying my guns? That comment really annoys the $#*! out of me. I can't even respond to anything that stupid.
As a side note ,If I was on SS at $1100 a month I'd be out working a job somewhere to increase my monthly take instead of sitting home being poor. I wouldn't even have mentioned this, but it was used as an excuse above, so I thought the advice relevant.
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I should stay out of this, but oh well. If someone has the desire to customize a cheap factory made gun and thinks the project is worthwhile, that is perfectly fine. What I question is whether this is the place for it. When I read the mission statement I'm not so sure. At one time it seemed the focus of ALR was to promote the art and craft of longrifle building from more or less a traditional perspective. To be honest, in my view things have slipped a little here. As soon as someone makes any attempt at suggesting a certain standard, they then seem to be accused of being elitest in some fashion. Has anybody ever considered why the best builders or students of the longrifle don't participate here? I think it it's something that should be asked. I can tell you this, it's not because they don't want to share and help.
Jim
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I would have to say that I agree with Mike, in that he is just giving a reality check. It is not a snob thing, just some good honest hard learned wisdom. You can put a lot of time and dollars into a conversion/rework project of an entry level gun and you will have an entry level gun with a nice stock and carving. It will still have a short barrel, usually not a good trigger and a not so great lock (particularly flintlocks). It would be far better to watch for a deal on a barrel, lock and trigger accumulate the parts, and then build the gun that you really want. Do not spend big $$$ on stock wood, a plain stock on a first gun is the way to go.
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Has anybody ever considered why the best builders or students of the longrifle don't participate here? I think it it's something that should be asked. I can tell you this, it's not because they don't want to share and help.
I'm glad this was brought up. Some participants here should ponder this for a while.
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This forum used to be a post graduate course in gunbuilding. Any more it is how many grains of powder should I use in my muzzleloader. I liked the post graduate course better.
Mark Horvat
Eureka, MT
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Now Mike, calm down, go feed the chickens. I am one who usually jumps on these things, but have never fooled with the CVA'S
of the world. It reached a point in the shop where, when a guy walked in with a cheap gun that didn't work, I learned to keep
my hands in my pockets. Several times I tried to help this guy with his gun and before I knew what happened, it was broken
So, guess what, I had to fix. I had some of those guns that wouldn't even pop a cap, unfortunately, it was all that this guy could afford, and, to be truthful, he didn't really know how a good gun should work. I always tried to be helpful because I
found that if he really liked the sport, he would probably want something better on down the road. We have a lot of hunters
here in Pa., and a lot of them hunt in our late flintlock season. Almost every year someone comes in the shop after deer
season and talks about this neat custom gun he saw, gets him turned on, and before you know he's buying parts to build one.
Unlike Mike, who earns his basic income from building guns, I don't have to do it as an income related effort. Fortunately, I am
retired, along with my wife who is also retired, and, to be truthful, have it pretty nice. Gun building is a tough racket, requires
a lot of skill and hard work to pay the bills. Mike builds some great guns, but I don't think this guy is going to buy one of his
right now, ha. You blew it Mike...........Don
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why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer.
rudyc
It might be because we have years of experience. I don't ever recall telling someone that their cheap, ill formed, mass produced ML was a piece of junk then attempting to sell them something I made. I don't have to stoop to this level of "salesmanship" nor does Mike or a host of others. Inferring that I don't like mass produced MLs because I want people to buy something I made is the argument of someone with no other ammunition.
No matter how much lipstick you smear on a pig its still a pig. This is just a fact.
People who whine about the cost of a custom are usually just too cheap to buy one OR even buy the parts for one. But will spend money on some "pig" then waste time and money "customizing" it. Its THEIR money. But don't come here asking questions because you might not like the answers.
How about all the American made guns that blew up years ago (they apparently changed barrel steels early in production but not nearly early enough). I could talk about the then local gunsmith that tried to pull the "drum" from a cheap import that was misfire prone (yeah the owner had been shooting it) and in turning it 1/4 turn it fell out of the barrel. Of others trying to remove machine installed breech plugs from American made mass produced guns that were so tight that it was possible that the breech was permanently damaged from being over torqued. This was evidenced by the breech BREAKING OFF when removal was attempted. But you could buy one cheap at most Wal-Marts at the time.
How about dovetails cut so deep that the bottom of the cut split when the rifle was fired? Yeah this happened too.
How about the "Ultra-hi" made in Japan by a big name in firearms that had a 2 piece barrel and the bore in octagonal piece did not line up with the bore in round part (it was "1/2 octagonal" fowler type) most of the time.
Or the time I saw a guy !@*%&@ near remove his head when his "pig" fell off 1/2 cock at a match, I still can't believe his hat brim was not holed . Two experienced gunsmiths could not reproduce this "event" BTW. But its a cheap lock with coil springs so what would anyone expect? Improper gun handling, perhaps. But MECHANICALLY it should not have happened.
People will buy used "pigs" from pawn shops then discover they were shot with highly corrosive substitute powders and the bore is pitted and rather than throw away the barrel since its now junk, will try to clean it up. Never mind that this stuff will make "crawdad holes" in the barrel especially in the ever present fouling traps in the breech (I have some photos somewhere that were sent by a friend years ago). People will clean them up and shoot the potential bomb anyway.
Of course if someone trys to tell them that buying used ones is a bad idea or that they are put together at in the cheapest possible manner that "someone" is then labeled by those who are for the most part CLUELESS as an "elitist". So its OK to paste an insulting label on someone with perhaps 40 years experience who in reality is trying to HELP the neophyte but its not OK to tell people they are smearing lipstick on a "pig". THIS is somehow "insulting."
Can't afford a custom?
There are REALLY good rifles that sell far too cheap on the TOW site and others. So rather than spend 2-500 bucks on some POS try SAVING some money over time and BUY A GOOD GUN or a kit from Chambers (they have their Haines kit on sale right now). There are people here that will bend over backwards to help you either by keyboard or in person if you are close enough IF the project is WORTHWHILE.
A GOOD gun is an INVESTMENT they will generally appreciate even with hard use. They are not like buying a used car. Its VERY difficult to lose money on a quality gun.
And in all honesty one must remember that there are "custom" guns out there that are so sloppily assembled and finished that they are little better, if at all, than the mass produced stuff.
Here is a piece of advice. If you cannot tolerate the answer don't ask the question. In almost every case the answer will be civil but the person that asks it may still be "insulted".
I refrain from posting to a great many things here. Mostly because
1: I know my comments would not be popular and
2: If I can't HELP people what is the point?
Further, the next time someone wants to tell me how wonderful these things are, just spend your time at some other endeavor. I have already seen and heard all of it for DECADES. It has not changed the facts or my opinion.
A question;
When shopping for a vehicle do you go to the dingiest used car lot you can find and buy a rusted out Yugo for 150-200 bucks? Then spray the rust with a rattle can and let you kids ride in it or drive it?
Just curious.
Dan
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Yep, we used to have absolute experts in various field offering information on engraving, carving, amd casehardening, as well as men who knew what there was to know about Hawken, Lehigh Valley rifles, etc., etc. They no longer post, some were insulted, their motives questioned or their wisdom was overridden by "experts" who have built one gun from a kit. After they had a gut full, they just quit; the valuable resource once freely given has been lost to all. (Fortunately, we still have some master gunmakers posting!) It is often better to keep your mouth shut and learn. We do need to learn the standards by which our work will be measured. The "If it feels good, do it" attitude should not apply here.
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Wow, the guy just asked what he could do to fix his gun. Who cares where it came from. It is HIS gun. We all started some place. I myself started with a kit in the 1970's. I now build my own guns from parts. But that is for me. As for the fellow who asked the question in the first place. Stick with it. Fix the gun up as you would like, Add a brass but plate, add a couple of inlays etc. Make it your own. Once you see that all this can be done who knows you may want to build a gun on your own. Its fun so keep it this way you will love the hoby. For those who do this for a living I wish you the best and do thank you for your input. As I and others who do this part time will always have questions. I just hope we all can stop judging others on how they wish to learn.
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Gentlemen,
All the guy wanted to do was fix up his backup gun a little and doing so would gain him some useful skills. Wouldn't break the bank either.
Give this man a break. Everybody has to start somewhere.......
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Hard to believe that good clean fun like this would chase people away. ;D
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Gentlemen,
All the guy wanted to do was fix up his backup gun a little and doing so would gain him some useful skills. Wouldn't break the bank either.
Give this man a break. Everybody has to start somewhere.......
Could not agree more. Hope the guy didn't get chased away with all the hoopla
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why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer.
rudyc
No matter how much lipstick you smear on a pig its still a pig. This is just a fact.
Dan
And this statement Dan is just a cheap shot low life insult!
In his first post, Hanshi says "Cost is an issue", and in his next one says he thinks the gun deserves it because of all the deer he's taken with it. And that he'd like to try to make it look a little better.
And the best you can do is say that it'll still be a pig with lipstick. That's sad.
The guy asked a simple question, and all he got in return was reticule and insults. I don't suppose you noticed that he hasn't replied since his initial questions.
Doubt you noticed this while writing him Your opinion, which is somehow more important and valid than his opinion, as to what he'd like to do with His rifle...
Then this beauty of a tidbit from Mike, to BJ mac; "As a side note ,If I was on SS at $1100 a month I'd be out working a job somewhere to increase my monthly take instead of sitting home being poor."
What the $#*! kind of a comment is this???
Just who the $#*! do you guys think you are???
You might be decent gun makers, but that doesn't give you the right to be rude!
Sorry, but certain guys on here need to think before they write, or you're going to be left all to yourselves, patting each other on the back about how great you are.
John
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Hanshi - do this to it and be happy. I"m surprised. Captchee - thanks.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy242%2Fcaptchee%2Fgun%2520stock%2520artical%2FDSC00974.jpg&hash=4f88e6b97ecc49e946c2ae771aa96bdc5cf34b76)
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I am locking this thread, may decide to delete it, after I think on it for awhile.
Lots of members have posted their feelings and I somewhat understand each side but
I just don't see where vocalizing it here does any good at all except to allow each one to
get it off your chest.
ALR was established for several reasons, one was for people with like interests to share
ideas with each other. Another reason was to spread interest in building/collecting/shooting
the American Longrifle. It was not intended to be a place where arguments, feuds could take
place. With that in mind I am locking this topic. If you wish to further discuss the things discussed
in this topic please take it to another forum. I do not want it on ALR.
Dennis