AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: drago on February 11, 2014, 03:11:18 AM
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Just wanted some opinions on which you prefer if you have tried both. Why you think one works best or just suits your needs. I have been thinking of trying one and would appreciate your input as I have heard only good things about both. Thanks.
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Of course I have a biased opinion. Can you use Hoppes as a patch lube???
;D ;D
Centershot
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I have heard of it used as a patch lube and for cleaning. Some say you can shoot 50 shots without wiping. I just was'nt sure of what type of accuracy they are getting. Can you ship case quantities? Always looking for ways to keep costs down.
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32 cal. flint 50 yards rested..Hoppe's lube.....5 shots wiped
have 5-6 other rifles it shoots well in..
Tried Mr flintlock..it shot true center 4" low..... same load and distance..
just more slick..not enough barrel time to build velocity.
will need to increase powder some.
Need more load testing before I make a call on Mr Flintlock.
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That's nice shooting at 50 yards with a 32. How does it clean up after a day at the range?
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I'm shooting Goex 3f and swabbing...the 32 shoots best this way......
I toothpick the touchhole and soak the bore while I gather gear at the end of a shoot.
barrel is 98% clean before I get home to clean it.
I soak the breech plug face with hoppe's during the drive home.
This is accomplished with a soaked patch against it.
while cleaning...rinse-flush bore with water..half dozen patches and its good.
I shoot year round..central Wisconsin weather.
Trick is to pick a range where the wind is a smaller shooting and comfort factor.
Have a couple I shoot at.
Keep a lube bottle inside outerwear below 23 deg. below that it freezes.
While winter hunting keep a couple of pre lubed patches inside warm pocket.
Just found liquid lubes easier to keep a consistent bore condition.
Did mink oil,deer tallow-bear grease,moose snot,Murphy's oil soap mix...etc.
found the thicker the lube the quicker bore condition broke down.
for extended shooting.. liquid lubes just work best for me.
As a rule in "my rifles"... say 54 cal. and up swabbing is not necessary for extending shooting sessions using hoppe's lube.
Have learned the joy of shooting the 32-36-40 cal. rb's.Love the crack of a small caliber flint rifle. ;D
I shoot against myself mostly..cause everyone else has gone" soft" during the winter.
Best part is the ranges are vacant...Go Figure.!
Try them both..You'd have a good excuse to go shoot.
Remember "your rifles" have a whole different set of parameters.
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For all shooting at the range and much shooting in the hunting woods, Hoppes #9 Plus BP lube is what I rely on. I find I can take my .32 or .36 to the range and fire forty to fifty shots without swabbing and with accuracy unaffected. Seating the 50th prb is just as easy as seating the second. Hoppes, along with a snug prb (not tight), just snug keeps fouling down to just one shot's worth. Hunting has the first prb lubed with Natural Lube 1000 so that in case no shot is fired the rifle can be stored uncleaned until later.
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Hanshi,
Where did you find the Hoppes in a can and how much is in it. Around here I'm lucky to find the 8 oz bottles and they are $6?
Mark
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Hanshi,
Where did you find the Hoppes in a can and how much is in it. Around here I'm lucky to find the 8 oz bottles and they are $6?
Mark
All of the containers (8 oz) that I have seen recently do not have the "PLUS" below the 9
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If it does'nt have the plus it's not for black powder. To bad cause there's tons of that everywhere.
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Charlie,
He's right about the plus and the lack of it. The 8 oz bottles I have found are the "plus".
Mark
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In the past have ordered both lubes direct from the manufacture...
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Did you prefer one over the other and why? Cost is less on the Hoppes 9 Plus but only if it works better.
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Hoppe's # 9 PLUS has worked for me, for many years as a target shooting lube. It's formulation has changed since 1974 when I first tried it, but it still works well as a patch lube. Like LHValley lube, it required more powder than a water based lube (spit, or WWWF+oil), to shoot well.
Hoppe's # 9 is a rather 'old hat' smokeless powder lube and a poor one at that - there are much better smokeless lubes now-a-days. The stuff Hoppe's sends up here to Canada, no longer has Benzedrine in it. Benzedrine is a known carcinogen. Benzedrine was what made Hoppe's #9 a decent powder and copper solvent. With Benzedrine's removal, Hoppe's #9 became merely a good or decent gun oil.
Hoppe's #9 PLUS does not have Benzedrine in it.
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Hanshi,
Where did you find the Hoppes in a can and how much is in it. Around here I'm lucky to find the 8 oz bottles and they are $6?
Mark
I've been asked that question more than once, smokinbuck. Unfortunately, I can't recall from whom but I did order it online. It could have been direct from Hoppes but I can't be sure. The price was around $40-$45.
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I was at the shop that usually has Hoppes #9 Plus. What they had was Hoppes #9 labeled "BLACK POWDER SOLVENT & PATCH LUBE". I wonder if they just changed the label.
Mark
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i tried that hoppes stuff years ago, horrible results, I remember I ha to use a long rod and a mallet to help the ball down on a dirty shot. Moose milk or mr flintlocks patch lube work much better for me.
mr flintlocks lube at 50 yards with a 50cal cva hawken and 70gr goex 2f.
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How many of you guys were shooting back in the late 70's, early 80's, when a new patch lube came on the market. I think
it was bought out by Ox-Yoke, they called it wonder lube. This is just a quiz to find out what the old shooters remember.....
........Don
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Was it a paste in a plastic orange container? I remember the 70's any how.
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How many of you guys were shooting back in the late 70's, early 80's, when a new patch lube came on the market. I think
it was bought out by Ox-Yoke, they called it wonder lube. This is just a quiz to find out what the old shooters remember.....
........Don
I don't remember it. Of course I'm a product of the seventies.
On another note. I wish there was a way to spend a week with each person on here just to pick there brains. I'm sure there's numerous members that have forgotten more about this sport than I will ever know.
d-a
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How many of you guys were shooting back in the late 70's, early 80's, when a new patch lube came on the market. I think
it was bought out by Ox-Yoke, they called it wonder lube. This is just a quiz to find out what the old shooters remember.....
........Don
I won a can of Wonder Lube and tried it in a .40 cal. Tennessee rifle I was shooting at the time. Followed all the instructions printed on the can and give it a whirl.
Before I was using spit patch at 60yrds, I could keep them inside 1" circle shooting bench at Charlie's Old Farm Shoot.
Wonder Lube patches wouldn't keep them in a 5" circle!
I gave the stuff to a fellow competitor who said he liked it!!
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Wow!
I'll have to dig out my old plastic jar but, didn't T/C Maxi-Lube say that you could also use it as a patch lube?
It's also early 70's vintage ... Beautiful brown color too! ;D
I stored three lubed Maxi-Balls in Polaroid fixer swab tubes.
Which by now, could be considered as, "period correct"! ;)
Cheers,
Smoketown
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The first stuff I saw was made by "Young Country Arms" or something like that, I know it had the name of Young in it. I could get as much as 30 shots without cleaning, also used it for hunting since it did not get hard when it was cold. However, I did
not use it for target shooting. Many of us were trying to figue out what the ingredients were in it. Closest thing we could
determine was that it was close to "chapstick"..........Don
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i tried that hoppes stuff years ago, horrible results, I remember I ha to use a long rod and a mallet to help the ball down on a dirty shot. Moose milk or mr flintlocks patch lube work much better for me.
Gander, I suspect your experience was with Hoppes #9 instead of #9+. Also believe the change from 9+ to Black Powder Lube and Cleaner was because others have confused them Both modern shooters using 9+ and BP shooters using plain #9.
I have found 9+ to be a very good lube for targets but have not tried it for hunting as I believe it will dry too quickly. Still working on a quart of 9+ so have not tried the newly labeled BP stuff. After seeing your results w/ Mr Flintlock, I am looking forward to trying that product.
Sight Picture, Trigger Control and Follow Through
TC
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I was at the shop that usually has Hoppes #9 Plus. What they had was Hoppes #9 labeled "BLACK POWDER SOLVENT & PATCH LUBE". I wonder if they just changed the label.
Mark
Same stuff and it can't be beat.
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I was at the shop that usually has Hoppes #9 Plus. What they had was Hoppes #9 labeled "BLACK POWDER SOLVENT & PATCH LUBE". I wonder if they just changed the label.
Mark
Same stuff and it can't be beat.
exactly the stuff i bought some years ago. Hated it, to dry.
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Don,
I remember "wonder lube". If I remember correctly it said something about bio degradable and edible. Never did try it, sounded hokey to me. I'm going to try Mr Flintlock but in the mean time, Hoppes #9, even the new label stuff, has treated me well.
Mark
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Just a reminder.On the bottle of hoppe's #9 plus it says do not allow to freeze. After it freezes once it separates and does not work nearly as well.Ask me how I learned this fact.
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Funny thing,but I've got a 3/4 full container of the original wonder lube sitting right next to a 7/8 full tube of TC maxilube.I looked at the maxilube the other day to see if it was any good and it looked familiar. Opened another jar on the shelf.It looked,smelled and felt exactly the same.RIG.
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I prefer Mr.Flintlock's stuff. I know many others using the stuff and haven't heard a bad remark yet. Its the new wonder lube!
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I tried it, Don - I think Taylor still has a tub of it, although he might have mixed it with something else in lube trials for his Sharps.
I mixed mine up with some BWax and tranny or some other oil for bullet lube, way back then. I went back to my bear grease and marmot oil for my patches for 'serious' shooting - the mixture was thrown away, as were many others, over the years.
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I know this is an old thread, but thought I would just add a note for Don.
I was managing a busy muzzleloading gun shop in Anaheim,Ca in the 70's. I remember both lubes.
Mr. Young came into our shop looking for the manager. He was a big man and rather tall. He had on a cowboy hat and boots and was loud and not shy of his opinion of his product. I was of average height, with long red hair, beard, and pretty sure of myself too. When he found out I was the manager, he looked down at me and said " you must be kidding me !". It left a lasting impression....
Although I heard it was a good product, I made sure we never carried the Young Country lube.
Tom W.
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i tried that hoppes stuff years ago, horrible results, I remember I ha to use a long rod and a mallet to help the ball down on a dirty shot. Moose milk or mr flintlocks patch lube work much better for me.
I have a similar experience with Hoppe 9+. I do not have to use mallet but after 10 shots I feel that the barrel is dirty. No such problem with ballistol/water mixture. How wet should be a patch soaked Hope 9+?
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How wet? I'd say as wet as any other patch to keep fouling at bay, no wetter, no dryer. The patch, if of substantial material like adequately thick denim or ticking will hold all the lube needed for constant shooting without ever having to wipe the bore.
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I used the "WonderLube" back in the late 1970s thru the 80s when I first started shooting BP. I still have a jar of it in my shop. IIRC it was supposed to "season" your barrel so it was easy to load and clean. I say BULLHOCKEY!. 3-5 shots then a wipe. I tried all different things I was "advised" to by "folks in the know" and had the same result. When I found this site I took someones advice and tried Hoppes #9 PLUS. I am well satisfied and a firm believer in the product. I still use the Wonderlube when I hunt as I'm not shooting and reloading as much and it's a paste so it will not affect the powder too much when it sits in the barrel for a time. The Hoppes is my lube at the range where a wet patch is not an issue, I've done 18- 30 shots without wiping depending on how long I'm there.
I hear a lot about the Mr. Flintlock lube but have not had the chance to try it, the Hoppes #9 PLUS does what I need it to do and I don't want to have to change loads to use it.
Kinda like the folks who prefer GOEX regular powder over the OE powder.
Mine ain't broke , no need to fix it.
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Great minds think alike, Scout.
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Waterfowl - run that by me again. It doesn't spend enough time in the barrel to build velocity? All this time I was thinking that minimal time in the barrel was the very definition of velocity.
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As far as a range lube, the LHV, which is what Mr. Flintlock's lube is, is wonderful lube. Hoppe's 9 plus is also an excellent lube. here in Northern BC, we can' seem to get Hoppe's 9 plus so I am hording/using sparingly, my last bottle of LHV & 3 bottles of Shenendoah lube - until something as good comes along.
LHV (Mr. Flintlock's Lube) gave me the very best accuracy I've seen produced from both my .40 and .45 calibre flint rifles. I did have to increase the powder charges to use it compared to water based lube. I assume this is due to the lubricity of the lube. More powder was required to get the pressure up to where every aspect of my combination worked perfectly. No fouling buildup - ever.