AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Robby on December 12, 2015, 08:14:44 PM
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I ran across a couple Beech trees out in the woods this morning, and by the way the bark ripples there is definitely some real good curl going on in there. I Have never heard of anyone using American beech for gun stock wood and wonder if anyone here has had any experience with it.
Robby
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Beech is very common in European made guns. I do not see why American would be much different.
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I think beech is used by CVA for their products. I think it is a pretty stable wood, especially for a gun without decorative carving.
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Hi Robby,
I am not certain but American beech may be a little softer than European. Regardless, it is very dense and hard. It makes good bench tops and mallet heads. A lot is cut up here in Vermont for firewood and I split a lot of it. I can attest to density and hardness. I suspect it would make fine gunstocks, but boring ones.
dave
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Most of the Beech I see that would be suitable for gunstocks is hollow. Might just be a Hoosier thing. Coons and squirrel love them, lots of dens.
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I stock most of my Carolina guns in beech. Fine wood for a gunstock.
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I think some of the american central fire company's used Beech for their more econo grade guns. It was cheaper than walnut but still made good stock wood.
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Beech is supposed to be a good stable wood. The only thing wrong with it is it looks like beech.
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Thank you fellow's, much appreciated!!
Robby
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Be sure to let us know how the planks look if you end up cutting them. As I get a little more involved in building (and hopefully a bit better at it), I find that I'm more and more interested in the trees/logs on my property. I now go hunting and spend half my time starting at my homemade flintlock in my hands to diagnose all of the mistakes that I've made, and half my time staring around me and wondering what the log from this tree or that tree looks like.
I'm soon taking three logs down including a nice 18" hard maple, a 16" chestnut oak (it seems to have died on its own and I can't see it going to waste) and a 20" American chestnut tree. Yeah, it's really a native American chestnut, not a Chinese chestnut and I'm not crazy. It's likely that only the maple will ever be made into stocks (I'm not even sure about that), but I also have hickory, ash, beech, red and white oak, some cherry and lots and lots of soft and hard maple on my property. My goal this spring is to walk much or most of the property with a hand axe and knock a spot of wood off of each maple in search of a nice tree with some curl. I actually found one a few years ago but it had already been dead for years and is now some spalted/curly maple that could be useful for bowl turning or other projects.
Like I said, let us know if you cut the beech and post some photos.
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GANGGREEN, You don't have to remove any wood from the tree to see if it has curl. Just strip off a piece of bark a couple inches wide and a foot long and you will see raised welts running horizontally, their closeness to each other tells how tight the curl is. With Beech, the bark is un-furrowed, and thin, making it easier to read. No bark removal necessary.
Robby
Method 1 – Reattaching lost tree bark
If the removed tree bark is still available after the tree bark damage, gather up as much as possible and reattach it to the tree. Use tape such as duct tape to secure the bark to the tree. Make sure that the bark is going in the right direction (the same direction it was on before it came off) on the tree, as the phloem layer can only transport nutrients in one direction. Perform this act as quickly as possible so that the bark does not die.
Method 2 – Clean cutting the wound
If the bark cannot be retrieved, say because an animal ate the bark, you will need to make sure that the damage to the tree will heal cleanly. Jagged wounds will interfere with the tree’s ability to transport nutrients so you will need to clean cut the wound. You do this by removing tree bark by cutting an oval around the circumference of the damage. The top and bottom of the wound there will be for the points of the oval. Do this as shallowly and as close to the wound as possible. Let the wound air heal. Do not use sealant.
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Method 1 – Reattaching lost tree bark
Method 2 – Clean cutting the wound
Very interesting!
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Robby, I was aware of that. I've already whacked bark off of a few trees and I fully intend to spend a lot of time this spring wandering the property with axe in hand, testing for curl. I'm really looking forward to it and hope that I score. I found a dead tree on my property last summer that was a curly hard maple, but sadly, it had been dead for a few years. I still cut it down and another board member milled it for me, so I have some curly/spalted boards in my barn, that may or may not end up in some project or other.
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Thanks Robbie. Axe and duct-tape!
I have a lot of Ash and Maple that I'll be testing. Hate damaging live trees with good potential.
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Gangreen, if you have a real living American chestnut I am sure the American Chestnut foundation would like to hear about it. Please don' t cut it if it isn't already dead, you didn't say one way or the other.
The few American chestnuts that are are still living are the basis for creating a 95% highbred used in re-establishing the species.
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I don't know if all American birch is yellow birch or not, I'm certainly no tree expert, but I have seen some yellow birch stocks that not only are not plain looking, but show excellent figure.
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Gangreen, if you have a real living American chestnut I am sure the American Chestnut foundation would like to hear about it. Please don' t cut it if it isn't already dead, you didn't say one way or the other.
The few American chestnuts that are are still living are the basis for creating a 95% highbred used in re-establishing the species.
There around but usally display the symptoms of the blight that killed than off years ago.My Dad had one in his yard for quite a while,plenty of nuts but just looked terrible. Thing never looked heathy and would never have grown into the once tall proud trees they once where.They are crossing the heathest ones with blight resistant ones from over seas.Then breed out the over seas doner strain,not sure how many generations they are into the experiment but its said to be going well.
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Gangreen, if you have a real living American chestnut I am sure the American Chestnut foundation would like to hear about it. Please don' t cut it if it isn't already dead, you didn't say one way or the other.
The few American chestnuts that are are still living are the basis for creating a 95% highbred used in re-establishing the species.
They know about it. They confirmed last year or the year before that it was the 2nd largest in the state of Pennsylvania at the time but they claimed that #1 was dying so mine may very well be the largest confirmed living tree in the state right now. Sadly, it's got the blight and is dying, if it's not dead already. What disturbed me a little bit is that I contacted the ACF many times, asking if they wanted to collect pollen or hand pollinate the tree and they always seemed less than interested.
What's also a bit unusual is that I found a 12-13" tree just the other day while taking my flintlock for a walk. It wasn't on my property, but it was close enough that it may have been able to pollinate mine, though I never found viable nuts on mine. This one appears to be dying from blight as well, in fact, it may be the bastard that killed mine. ;)
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Here I am contemplating life against the big Chestnut, for those of you who have never seen one or who assume that they're extinct.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi268.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj8%2Fbragosta%2FTrees%2520008_zpsdowfjhfi.jpg&hash=504e4e39c6f6aeaf212018d0aad0d73b47281d85)
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Dad would grow many seedlings from his tree but they usally ended up with the blight,couple ones that looked the best he planted up around the hunting camp in Bradford county,PA.There used to be a long dead town up there called Barkley station,chestnut timber industry as well as mining was big there a long time ago.
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Here I am contemplating life against the big Chestnut, for those of you who have never seen one or who assume that they're extinct.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi268.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj8%2Fbragosta%2FTrees%2520008_zpsdowfjhfi.jpg&hash=504e4e39c6f6aeaf212018d0aad0d73b47281d85)
If you ever get a chance look at photos of the old timber cutting days,those trees get a lot bigger than that,damm shame
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Yeah, I've seen the photos. I suspect European chestnut probably still get quite large as well. The American variety are so few in number and tend to die off so young that the odds of one getting gigantic are pretty slim. That said, I'm guessing that mine is 80-100 years old (I'll know when I get the stump on the ground) and is 20" DBH (diameter at breast height). It is a horrible shame. They used to be so plentiful that they were used for everything, home and barn building, furniture, firewood, etc.. The nuts were taken advantage of by all kinds of wildlife and farmers would often pick them up and feed them to the pigs because they were free and extremely plentiful.
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I just can't justify putting $5000.00 worth of labor into a $50.00 piece of wood.
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Never saw a live American Chestnut. But in the 1940s i helped on one end of a large crosscut saw to bring down several old Chestnut snags around the family cabin in the mountains of Western PA. Some of those stumps were 6 ft in diameter and I can just imagine the mast crop such trees would produce. I have read that in wasn't unusual for the Chestnut to make up more than 70% of the forest. They fed everything including humans. Would dearly love to see such trees once again in the forest. Like to see the elms back and the ash saved too.
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You aren't kidding Jerry. It's a shame to see the forests today. It's primarily the result of international travel and commerce because bugs, fungus and disease from overseas that our trees have never seen come to this continent and attack the native flora. It's not just the chestnut, ash and elm either, we've got issues with our beech, hemlock, even the maple. I'd love to see photos of those trees from the family farm that you took down with the crosscut though if you have them and I also apologize to the OP for hijacking his thread a little bit because I'm curious how those beechwood stocks look too, especially if they actually have some curl.
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No apology needed Gang, I've been watching American chestnut trees rise from the ground, reach the nut bearing stage, become blighted, and die, for most of my life. Its an ugly end for such a beautiful tree, but they keep coming up, keep trying and one day they will develop their own resistance to the blight.Never quit!!!
I'll try to remember to take a camera with me on my next squirrel hunt and get a picture of those Beech trees that I believe contain good curl.
Robby
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Gangreen,
Let me reiterate PLEASE do not cut down an American chestnut of that size!
An American chestnut of that size has lived its entire life exposed to the blight. that means that it has some genetic resistance to the blight and its genetic heritage is desperately needed in the effort to restore the American Chestnut. Please contact The American Chestnut Foundation (www.ACF.org) and notify them about the location of the tree. They will send volunteers out to harvest pollen in June to be used in their breeding program. They have invested the past 30 years in selectively breeding blight resistant chestnuts by crossing Asian strains with American. If you have a native American Chestnut that is blight resistant it could make an important contribution to the restoration effort.
Best Regards,
John Cholin
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Gangreen,
Let me reiterate PLEASE do not cut down an American chestnut of that size!
An American chestnut of that size has lived its entire life exposed to the blight. that means that it has some genetic resistance to the blight and its genetic heritage is desperately needed in the effort to restore the American Chestnut. Please contact The American Chestnut Foundation (www.ACF.org) and notify them about the location of the tree. They will send volunteers out to harvest pollen in June to be used in their breeding program. They have invested the past 30 years in selectively breeding blight resistant chestnuts by crossing Asian strains with American. If you have a native American Chestnut that is blight resistant it could make an important contribution to the restoration effort.
Best Regards,
John Cholin
John, I've had the ACF out. They've confirmed the ID of the tree, measured it, certified it as the second largest in the state (at that time, it may be the largest now), but they seemed completely uninterested in harvesting pollen or hand-pollinating the tree. The tree is now dying of blight and quite frankly, it may be completely dead because I don't think it takes long once the symptoms appear. I'm reasonably sure that the tree will not leaf out next spring and will be dead, dead, dead. I assure you that this saddens nobody more than it does me. I've been involved in wildlife conservation and habitat conservation for nearly 3 decades and I happen to love this tree and have spent many hours sitting under it contemplating life. It's dead or dying and nothing can be done to save it. At the very least, I'll benefit from the lumber and enjoy the furniture that comes with it for the rest of my life (at which point it will be passed on to my children and to their children for their enjoyment).
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I wouldn't want anyone to think that I'm foolish enough or greedy enough to harvest a large American chestnut tree that was healthy or that had any chance of survival. When I purchased this property and found the tree, I had a secret hope that "my tree" was the one, the one living American chestnut that had an absolute resistance to the blight and that would become the savior of the species. Well, sadly, it isn't to be. I'm convinced that this tree was no more resistant to the blight than any other chestnut, it was simply isolated from other chestnuts and was never exposed to the blight....until now.
A few more photos. The first shows me in my normal spot, thinking about the tree and its life.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi268.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj8%2Fbragosta%2Fsitting_zpssqfwqpxe.jpg&hash=72361d13b879de8a5a76e6d4d925030d4e928352)
The second photo shows me taping the tree at 20" DBH. When the ACF and my local forester were out, they also measured the height of the tree. I don't recall exactly but I think it was in the 90' range.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi268.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj8%2Fbragosta%2Fmeasure_zpsgxceyois.jpg&hash=0f5d9d1054dcbf6c98265f8cbb5a77e9737bda6c)
Sadly, time seems to get all of these old monarchs. In addition to self-pruning, which really isn't that unusual even with a healthy chestnut, the tree's branches have all died back and the only remaining foliage is on suckers that were produced as the tree recognized that it was dying.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi268.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj8%2Fbragosta%2Fblight_zps6rcufowj.jpg&hash=1606fa9363e1e145f113dd24bfaf5bbfde6211c9)
You can also see the bark starting to split and slough off the trunk in this photo.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi268.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj8%2Fbragosta%2Fbark_zpsh9h98vku.jpg&hash=6ca6c008041b0d82cce049e41b1c23446d7d24dc)
At this point, the tree simply can't be saved and as I mentioned before, I'd be highly doubtful that it would even leaf out again next spring because of the advanced stages of blight. It's become a matter of common sense. I have the choice of allowing it to stand and possibly rot on the stump, or of harvesting it now and hopefully finding the lumber to be sound and of otherwise good quality.
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I just can't justify putting $5000.00 worth of labor into a $50.00 piece of wood.
HAHAHA, Yeah I understand the sentiment Jerry and apply it myself in many circumstances, but there are times when the return on ones labor is far more rewarding than money, in ways that have no measure. You would, I think, understand that sentiment as well.
Robby
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These are a couple of the Beech trees I was referring to, the third one I'm not sure whats going on with that one, maybe a birds eye type configuration.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh217%2Frobin101st%2FDSCN0153_zpsx5ridgec.jpg&hash=f29550322c13428e71d3700790ac6618ebb3f555)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh217%2Frobin101st%2FDSCN0155_zpsmzo4momw.jpg&hash=c5038ce4c1c7dba76c308c547995008e40490ba6)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh217%2Frobin101st%2FDSCN0154_zpsdxrf804b.jpg&hash=77507248c68ad5a65eb3655b7d912fe1376eb71d)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh217%2Frobin101st%2FDSCN0156_zpstsqlz3zl.jpg&hash=182ff8e75b9ca75778b6cb25924454dffd282c56)
Robby
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Robby, I've seen those types of beech trees too and I'm curious what you'll find if you slab it out. Please post photos. As for the last photo, that's not going to be a birdseye grain, that's a disease that all American beech are now seeing and it will eventually kill the tree. I'd be surprised if that tree has anything other than plain old, clear grain beech, but who knows, I'm certainly no expert (though I play one on TV).
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Regarding looking under the bark for sign of curl: welts are a sign, but the photo shows the inner bark of an ash that was curly. This is also how the inner bark looks on curly maple, both Acer saccharum (sugar) and A. rubrum (red). There is no need to peel to the cambium. This is less intrusive and still gives a yes or no answer to the presence of curl.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1217.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd393%2Ftalkingamoeba%2FCurlyAsh066.jpg&hash=92a6e789429b50f11b9158b615ff6a8e11ee044a) (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/talkingamoeba/media/CurlyAsh066.jpg.html)
This is the wood of the same ash. Sadly had snapped off before I found it.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1217.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd393%2Ftalkingamoeba%2FCurlyAsh063.jpg&hash=60714b797e3fa62c402d735e62abdf3e5cbf9697) (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/talkingamoeba/media/CurlyAsh063.jpg.html)
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Never seen a beech tree like that in all my days wandering the woods. Wow!