Hi Jon,
I visited with Dave Price a few days ago and he told me about examining your Kibler kit. He described the barrel fit as a "key in a lock" it was so precise. We both laughed because we would have to scrape "slop" in the fit of parts to accommodate swelling when finish is applied. Nice job.
dave
Very nice! The fit is excellent. And that's a fine looking piece of wood. Nice grain. Aqua fortis would be my first choice. What are you thinking of finishing her with?
A few comments. You guys are going WAY freaky deaky over this toe thing. I have sen far more busted wrists on these antique mountain guns than busted toes. Also, if you just have to have a toe plate, study the geographic area where this particular gun was originally built and stick with what was common in that area. That finial sticks out like a sore thumb on a gun like this, my opinion of course. I'd suggest taking that one off and putting a 3" or 4" pain toe plate on it secure by two or three screws. Also, in almost 350 guns I have NEVER put the buttplate on before I have the barrel in and completely secured. Just too much worry over this butt/toe thing in this case. To the point, This old gun, pictured below, made it through probably 175 years with no buttplate or toe plate and is no worse for the wear. If you put aqua !@#$% on it it is going to go black....may be interesting if your going to rub the $#*! out of it for an antiqued look though.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0703%2FGunmaker%2Fold%2520poor%2520boy%2F002.jpg&hash=72d98a34d488d1a777f5b55a33ac1f7846af53c6)
My apologies for the "Garand" picture
If the Garand Photo offends, I will remove, PM me and I will give you the exact process to duplicate if that finish is what you are looking for.Its not that it offends, our rules state nothing but ML's with sidelocks. What happens when a modern gun is shown is the same as on this one, others start to chime in and the next thing you have is a discussion on modern guns. There are many forums for modern arms so no need to discuss them here.
I have seen your work in the past and you are a fine craftsman. I was hoping to pull you back a bit because you have a tendency to "over embellish" as most people with your level of skill tend to do. "More" is not always "better". These were no nonsense guns built by no nonsense blacksmith/gunsmiths for no nonsense people.A few comments. You guys are going WAY freaky deaky over this toe thing. I have sen far more busted wrists on these antique mountain guns than busted toes. Also, if you just have to have a toe plate, study the geographic area where this particular gun was originally built and stick with what was common in that area. That finial sticks out like a sore thumb on a gun like this, my opinion of course. I'd suggest taking that one off and putting a 3" or 4" pain toe plate on it secure by two or three screws. Also, in almost 350 guns I have NEVER put the buttplate on before I have the barrel in and completely secured. Just too much worry over this butt/toe thing in this case. To the point, This old gun, pictured below, made it through probably 175 years with no buttplate or toe plate and is no worse for the wear. If you put aqua !@#$% on it it is going to go black....may be interesting if your going to rub the $#*! out of it for an antiqued look though.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0703%2FGunmaker%2Fold%2520poor%2520boy%2F002.jpg&hash=72d98a34d488d1a777f5b55a33ac1f7846af53c6)
Thanks Mike - I agree that we all look through different lenses here - and the barrel is in and pinned - I guess I wanted to show what I did, right or wrong, and I think it should work just fine. Interesting photo of the stock - I'm sure many had no plates on them at all (Butt or Toe). I have much to learn.
You guys are going WAY freaky deaky over this toe thing.Mike is right, I have owned several originals without buttplates and many with buttplates and no toe plates. I have yet to run into an original without buttplate that appeared to beat or chipped up, same for toe plates. In my opinion they are more for appearance than anything else.
Nice job On the kit.Thses were so fun to do,no stress at all.Yeah putting the but plate on first is a good idea,you have the toe area and also those sharp corners corners of the return on the but plate to watch for.Keep up the good work.I enjoy watching youre posts.
Nice job On the kit.Thses were so fun to do,no stress at all.Yeah putting the but plate on first is a good idea,you have the toe area and also those sharp corners corners of the return on the but plate to watch for.Keep up the good work.I enjoy watching youre posts.
So, what do you guys do with these things when you get them? Beat the buttplate inlet against the cement floor while you're putting in your barrel before you inlet the buttplate? I'm baffled.
This buttplate/toeplate thing is reaching urban legend status...... :o
Just so I know for future reference, are you Joe S., The Joe S., or the original Joe S. Twice removed on his mothers side? Like to know who I'm doin' buisness with.Which has always made me wonder, are you the original Squirrel Pizza or the new and improved Squirrel Pizza?
It's CNC capability at it's finest. With very good programming. The machines can cut repeatedly with in tenths of thousandth. Once set-up.
It's CNC capability at it's finest. With very good programming. The machines can cut repeatedly with in tenths of thousandth. Once set-up.
oldtraveler - only 61? My daughter just bought a small CNC machine for the library evening work-shop Build-it class she runs. As you noted, that machine's precision is noted as .00025". Absolutely amazing, but I assume it is only as accurate as it's programming.
I agree to a large extent. But the product that comes out is only as good as the materials that go in. I don't think that machine, be it a very expensive complicated machine, understands the nuances of a fine rifle.
Looks great! One minor detail... The threaded ramrod tip end typically goes into the stock first. The ramrod will need a very slight taper towards the tip for it to go into the stock smoothly. Can't wait to see it finished.
Jim
OK - Back to the build.... I pulled the barrel and opened (elongated) the pin holes to allow for wood expansion and contraction, then I installed the front and rear sites, and the trigger guard (with a VERY rough filing as a start). All pins and parts are in, assemble the lock again tonight to test everything, then polish all metal and prep for finish.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah76%2FKingsburyarms%2Fkit12_zpsktflvswg.jpg&hash=95afd2ef8ac23aa82275c28f1015e4b9c93046d3)
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Enjoying your pictorial as I'm just starting on mine, finally. I notice how nicely you elongated the holes on your barrel lug, but I noticed when installing the barrel with mine I noted that they need to be filed down so they would be flush with the ramrod channel, or am I missing something. I also see the rr tubes need to be filed down on the flange to be flush to the inside barrel channel, correct?
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah76%2FKingsburyarms%2Fkit14_zpsl38d2cqc.jpg&hash=a93c781f4a85ba80bb75aeb46c4b14ea6159d4d7)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1377.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah76%2FKingsburyarms%2Fkit16_zpsgqcn9ifw.jpg&hash=6f551f24da7970fa5ec9ff82823854274b03e49c)
I'm finishing up a Whitson-inspired rifle right now (slab built, not from Jim's kit). My toe plate and patchbox are modeled directly from those on one of the original Whitson guns shown on Jim's website though.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi230.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee62%2FLudworld%2FIMG_1221.jpg&hash=ee0538191715016c72bf8fade0d1bd9ff2199560) (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/Ludworld/media/IMG_1221.jpg.html)
I'm finishing up a Whitson-inspired rifle right now (slab built, not from Jim's kit). My toe plate and patchbox are modeled directly from those on one of the original Whitson guns shown on Jim's website though.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi230.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee62%2FLudworld%2FIMG_1221.jpg&hash=ee0538191715016c72bf8fade0d1bd9ff2199560) (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/Ludworld/media/IMG_1221.jpg.html)
NICE - Thank you - Very clean and concise...
Thank you! One interesting side note on that original Whitson rifle. The ramrod pipes were paneled with wedding bands on the ends. They were made of coin silver... :)
I'm finishing up a Whitson-inspired rifle right now (slab built, not from Jim's kit). My toe plate and patchbox are modeled directly from those on one of the original Whitson guns shown on Jim's website though.Doing it the hard way eh? ;)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi230.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee62%2FLudworld%2FIMG_1221.jpg&hash=ee0538191715016c72bf8fade0d1bd9ff2199560) (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/Ludworld/media/IMG_1221.jpg.html)
Hey qauldwig could you plz show us the rest of that rifle?Would love to see it.
I'm finishing up a Whitson-inspired rifle right now (slab built, not from Jim's kit). My toe plate and patchbox are modeled directly from those on one of the original Whitson guns shown on Jim's website though.Doing it the hard way eh? ;)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi230.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee62%2FLudworld%2FIMG_1221.jpg&hash=ee0538191715016c72bf8fade0d1bd9ff2199560) (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/Ludworld/media/IMG_1221.jpg.html)
While waiting for the new Toe Plate SteelAre you growing a new one or something? :P
To funny Mike ;DQuoteWhile waiting for the new Toe Plate SteelAre you growing a new one or something? :P
Hey PPatch, Don't be showing him stuff like that , I'm trying to break him of some bad habits..... ;D
Ok I'm blind. What's the hard way ?
If builders keep this up we are going to need the moderators to start a new discussion board called "pimp my rifle". :oQuoteWhile waiting for the new Toe Plate SteelAre you growing a new one or something? :P
Hey PPatch, Don't be showing him stuff like that , I'm trying to break him of some bad habits..... ;D
Hey we could start are own tv show pimp our rifles.
If builders keep this up we are going to need the moderators to start a new discussion board called "pimp my rifle". :oQuoteWhile waiting for the new Toe Plate SteelAre you growing a new one or something? :P
Hey PPatch, Don't be showing him stuff like that , I'm trying to break him of some bad habits..... ;D
David
Note to self.......check with Mike before proceeding with build ;D
Kingsburyarms,
Very nice work on an excellent new rifle. One question, how or better yet, what did you use to elongate your barrel lug pin holes. Thanks and looking forward to your finished rifle.
elkhorne
Really nice work Kingsbury. I just ordered and paid for the same thing this morning. A Kibler .36 Southern Mountain Rifle kit in walnut. Patiently waiting its arrival. ;D
Ez
I think Kibler is going to put me out of a job with all this "do it yourself" gun building going on..... ;DI hope not. Then I would have to apply for a job carving stocks for Jim since you would not need my services any longer. ::) Actually, Jim's kits have been tempting.
You want me to hunt some squirrels with that this fall? Just in case you don't know how or something... ;)
2200 grit paper! :o Do they make such a thing?
2200 grit paper! :o Do they make such a thing?
Be careful now, this could look like a she but actually identifies as a he......you never know these days. ;D