AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Stoner creek on September 11, 2023, 02:14:07 AM
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I shot 50 rounds of the new Goex 3f powder today. It was fast, consistent, and clean. Absolutely no complaints here. It shoots as clean as Old Eyensford and performance is close to the same. That’s good news in my opinion.
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That is excellent news I am a big fan of Olde E if they have decided to produce just one powder, I am glad that the performance is at that level.
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I haven’t done a side by side test of this powder versus the other brands out there but this stuff looks to have a slightly smaller granule size than other 3f powder. Stay tuned!
W
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Looking forward to it.
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Good news indeed Wayne.
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Thanks for the report Wayne!
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Stoner Creek, Where did you purchase your Goex made powder. Jerry
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Stoner Creek, Where did you purchase your Goex made powder. Jerry
Friendship had it, Jerry. Saw the semi-truck bringing it in on Friday. They received 1800 lbs. $24 a pound.
Bob
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Stoner Creek, Where did you purchase your Goex made powder. Jerry
The powder magazine at Friendship
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Put in an order for Swiss 3F from Graf and Sons today for 5# @ $31 a pound with no shipping and no hazmat. Just WI sales tax!
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Is the pound price good as well?
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Placed my order to Graf and Sons on Wed(12th) and received it today (15th) in WI . That is quick service! $30.99 a pound 3F Swiss -with free shipping, no Hazmat, only WI sales tax.
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The Swiss may or may not be better,marginally but if we want to KEEP and use black powder then supporting the ONE and ONLY American maker might be a good idea.I bought my first pound of DuPont 3fg in 1951 for $1,50 and now it's what at one time was a weeks pay.
The good report on GOEX is very good news even if I haven't fired a shot with it since 2001.
Bob Roller
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A friend gave me three pounds of Dupont 3f. The lot # on the cans are the same and the date is 1963.
Unfortunately he only gave me 3 lbs. It shoots very well and it is very consistent.
I will be buying Goex in June at Friendship. I have tried Swiss and have not found it to be significantly better than Goex to justify its significantly higher price.
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Will just have to wait and see what the actual price per pound will be when Goex gets to the regular market and available throughout the country. I agree Goex Old Eynsford 3F is a great black powder and I hope it comes back at a reasonable price per pound!
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Will just have to wait and see what the actual price per pound will be when Goex gets to the regular market and available throughout the country. I agree Goex Old Eynsford 3F is a great black powder and I hope it comes back at a reasonable price per pound!
Bill Knight, Mad Monk, thought that Olde Enysford was not really black powder due to the smell of the smoke. He also told me that the components that Goex uses (soecifically maple charcoal) were not conducive to making a really good blackpowder. He figured they had added something to get the performance up to that of Swiss. But he never got to take it apart and look at it as he did Goex sometime before. He was the one that told me why there was so much waste in the Goex made at Moosic.
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The Swiss may or may not be better,marginally but if we want to KEEP and use black powder then supporting the ONE and ONLY American maker might be a good idea.I bought my first pound of DuPont 3fg in 1951 for $1,50 and now it's what at one time was a weeks pay.
The good report on GOEX is very good news even if I haven't fired a shot with it since 2001.
Bob Roller
I don’t think BP will go out of production in the US anytime soon. Given other factors they might stop commercial sales. Their primary income is from the US Military for fuses and boosters. That is why the current plant is on a military reservation. It was a backup plant in case of war. When Goex finally REALLY blew up the Moosic plant they moved production to the Minden plant. Since it was ready to roll pretty much. I suppose its possible they could have come up with a better charcoal. But its not needed for the military so I doubt it. Time will tell. MLs, especially round ball guns don’t really need very good powder anyway compared to bullet guns and the brass suppository types. The fact that Goex was so bad (especially from Moosic 15% or some waste per can) in suppository guns they cooked up a formula for Olde Enysford.
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Not sure what people have against Goex. Last year I made 3 loads from 3 different lots of Goex. Three shots from each batch. Shot through a chronograph and all nine shots virtually the same. Don't know what others are finding but this old guy will stick to Goex (that and I have a lifetime supply).
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i am no chemist, all i know is that i shoot tiny groups with goex. it doesn't build up a hard ring in the chamber like Swiss, it is made in America, and i also have a lifetime supply,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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I purchased 2 cases of Olde Eynsford when it was available. I have shot over a case of it and never noticed a difference in smell but that is not saying much for me. I do really like its performance but never thought about how they improved it. I just figured they used better components and stricter processing methods. Interesting to think that it might not be real black powder. I would have assumed that it would have fallen under the substitute category for sales and storage regulations.
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I’m sure Old Eynsford is “real” black powder. I believe they adjusted the formula and possibly the charcoal to make it more like Swiss powder. It smells the same to me as Swiss, and is actually easier to load without wiping. It’s not quite as hot as Swiss, but I get as good or better accuracy in my chunk guns.
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While at Friendship I purchased the new Goex 2F looked good right out of the container. I found it grouped right with old Goex all the way out to 200 yards with the old site setting.
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I shot 15 balls with the new goex last week with a 45 that I've been shooting with Scheutzen 3f for quite a long time. Using the identical load and patch it shot just like the Scheutzen. Fouling seems about the same as well.
It's so similar that I plan to do a chrono comparison.
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I have used Schutzen 2F in the .69. I had to increase the power charge to get the same groups and sighting as with the old GOEX I had been using since 1986 when that rifle was built and sighted. I have not had to change the sights since then using GOEX, but with Schutzen powder I had to increase the charge. I have not shot O.E. in it.
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Does the new Goex have a different name? Will they still make OE?
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Does the new Goex have a different name? Will they still make OE?
Same name, same equipment, new owners.
Old E coming early 2024 they say.
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Ok, thanks.
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All the info you need about the new Goex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TZBLR7qM4s&ab_channel=ILoveMuzzleloading
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Sounds good.
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Not sure what people have against Goex. Last year I made 3 loads from 3 different lots of Goex. Three shots from each batch. Shot through a chronograph and all nine shots virtually the same. Don't know what others are finding but this old guy will stick to Goex (that and I have a lifetime supply).
It goes back a long way. Back to when, unknown to me, Goex was getting sued because of faulty fuses in hand grenades. When I found this out when they were threatening to sue me over an article I wrote for the old Buckskin Report. AND then I wondered about the radio call we got in 1970 while out hunting commies telling us not to use any “baseball” grenades. A friend then said “I threw three of them last night”. I wonder, now, if it was from the stateside injuries I learned about years later or the incident from 1970 which we heard was form an accident with the ARVNs ??? There were other things as well that few ML shooters would have noticed. Lots dust in the cans for example. But this should not occur in Minden powder since they are using better water.
Also MLs shooting RBs are not as finicky as a slug gun or a BPCR about velocity variations. Where velocity standard deviations over 10 can cause serious vertical stringing at ranges over 150 yards or so. I have seen 3 ft plus at 300 yards. When i was building match grade BPCRs I had people give me powder that was so bad they could not get it too shoot accurately. I just gave the last two pounds of this away a couple of weeks ago.
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Goex again and even better this time. Who can argue with that?
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Yeah, i'll switch back to it.
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I haven’t listened to all the video yet. Besides the date stamp, is there anything else on the packaging itself to indicate current manufacture vs previous? Or New Goex vs Old Goex? Company name or address change on back, etc. ?
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Not sure anybody has any of the old Goex. I buy from Graf's and they don't have any Goex left. I know when they sell it again it will be the new one.
Other than that. I don't know how to tell by looking at the bottle.
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i know a man with about 50lbs of the old stuff,,,,,,,,,,, :o
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I shoot muzzleloaders and have since @ 1970, used lots of the old GOEX. In the last 20 years or so I have shot mostly black powder cartridge rifles. I purchased some new GOEX 2F last month and tried it out in a match last weekend. I used my old sight settings I have for Swiss and Old E. There was no difference in my sight settings with the new GOEX and the Swiss I shot the month before or the Old E I had shot last year. No change at all. With the projected cost of the new Swiss in the spring I will be going to the new GOEX. It shot just as well, soft fouling, easy clean up and 1/3 cheaper than what Swiss is reported to cost. I like the Old E, but I'll just have to see what the price of the new production will be when it comes out. My message is don't be afraid of the new GOEX, good powder.
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of course it is good. i heard all the negative talk about the old elephant powder, how nasty it was. a friend came over to my range here at my cabin, he brought along, and it shot good and was no dirtier than anything else,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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With Goex back on line, what is everyone’s opinion on the best powder and granulation for a 20 ga smoothbore? Thanks, Jerry
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I shoot 2F in mine. 85gr. with 1 1/8oz. shot for clays. If I was going to shoot grouse with it, I'd use the same load with #6's, #4's for bunnies.
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Powder Inc. has it in stock now. Just got some dropped off at my porch.
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Just wondering if anybody else has used the new Goex 2f, and is willing to offer up any reviews. I was debating on waiting for the new Old Ensyforde 2f to hit the market for a new .54 I’ll be picking up soon. I’m not a fan of the crust ring I’ve experienced when using Swiss, but sounds like the new Goex 2f maybe just what I’m looking for based off of earlier reviews on this topic.
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As Wayne and others have said, it's virtually the same as the old.
I trust them.
I wish we could get some. Right now, still shooting the Schutzen we got a while back.
For me in my match rifle, the Schutzen 2F needs 10+gr. MORE than the old GOEX to hit centre and give me the accuracy I became accustomed to, since 1986 when that rifle was built.
I've never experienced this "crust ring" that others have noted. I have not tried Swiss in this rifle or any rifle other than the BPCTG one. No crust at all in that one, anywhere.
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Almost any powder made today is probably (surely) better that much of the powder used here in the 1780s. But the plant where GOEX is made is not designed to make a sporting grade powder. If my info on the plant is correct and they use a roller press. I don’t know how its milled. I do know they are using better saltpeter than at Moosic and the water is better. The final blow up of Moosic did us all a favor. Most ML shooters have no idea what the BPCR shooters went through.
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Just shot some of the new Goex 2f today. Finished the last of my old goex in the metal can. And went and loaded the same amount and patch and shot a .58 caliber into the same group at 55 yards. Shot was a touch higher but that was probably me.
Bought it from Powder inc. along with some Swiss 2f.
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I got a few cans of FF and FFF and am ready for this year and probably next.
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Not sure anybody has any of the old Goex.
Chronographq testing done!We had old Goex on hand and a few of us did some testing:
FYI - Pretty interesting chronograph results of testing the NEW Goex black powder versus the ‘old’ Goex Company formulation.
It does load 'volume for volume' like the old powder, or as any BP powdah should, However it weighs 9% less in physical weight, in case one loads by physical grain weight, like some BP cartridge & NSSA competition shooters do.
The new 2F was close in velocity to the old powder, but there were wild velocity swings and higher extreme spread (999 to 1160), whereas the extreme spread for the old Goex was only 37.
New Goex 2Fg had 1098 FPS vs 1104 FPS of the old in a 33.3” barreled 62-cal Baker (80grn load by volume)
New Goex 3Fg had 1491 FPS vs 1603 FPS of old in a 42” barreled 45-cal SMR (50grn load by volume). But get this, even the report at the shot was MUCH LESS of a 'bang'! It too had a ~3X higher extreme spread. It was also light gray in color, looks more like Pyrodex, and wasn’t black at all … not that that means anything, LOL!
All powdahs tested in flintlocks, w/ the 1st few fouling shots thrown out.
I remain VERY impressed with the chronograph velocity of a 50grn 3Fg load in a 45!
More new vs. old Goex testing:
These results as measured by weight appear to be better than the results that two others got above when they measured/loaded by volume. It also seems to indicate that perhaps the more powder, the better the performance. That might also be why the rifle tested below cleaned up fine, hypothesizing that the higher charge burns or combusts more efficiently.
Yes, the data sets are small, however, I'm running them through my specialized statistics program which includes a module for 'short run’ SPC. That concept actually has some ways to validate data, i.e., to ‘normalize’ it (a statistical term), for such small data sets when combined in the aggregate.
More testing to be done!
(https://i.ibb.co/D7Y71JW/2-CBE6-D39-0-C99-4-F18-8-E4-B-E5-DE29536-FF3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6484yMw)
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Some interesting data. Thanks for taking the time, effort and expense to test this out and share it here. ;) :)
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Not to traash talk old Bill because he's not here to chime in anymore. I knew Bill Knight for years and did a LOT of info exchange with him and a LOT of talking with him every year at Dixon's. I respect him immensely - did then and still do - but man, he had some freaking Monte Cristo level grudge against Goex. I never really understood why. He was very involved with Elephant powder years ago and he talked me into getting (redacted) amount of that cr a p, and it is the dirtiest, nastiest powder I've ever used in my life. Sure, it goes bang, but it is absolutely filthy, fouls up a bore in no time flat, and it is the most inconsistent garbage for priming you'll ever use.
If I wasn't such a cheap s o b I'd have used it for fertilizer by now, but like I said, it does go bang and nowadays I think anything that goes bang is something to hang on to. I jsut keep it stored and keep it dry, but I sure don't use it much anymore I'll tell you that.
I'lll take Goex new or old any day of the week.
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I will shoot Goex, some are contrary just to be argumentative !
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GOEX is the best powder I have used in my muzzleloaders since 1980.
I still have a couple cans of Swiss 1 1/2, but that is for the "other" rifle(s).
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Goex has been my preferred powder. Before that Dupont.
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The best powder I EVER used, was 3 pounds of American Deadshot in FFG granulation.
The factory blew up in 1898 or 1888 I have been told. I did not look up that information myself.
It was clean, hard, sharp and shiny granules, no "fines" or dust.