AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Chris Evrard on October 31, 2023, 04:57:51 PM
-
Hey All,
As some of you have heard, I recently bought the Ditchburn Lock Co. from Stan Hollenbaugh. This included the Ditchburn rifle and pistol locks along with Stan’s John Armstrong lock.
The first one I am going to produce for sale is the Ditchburn/Beck rifle lock. I’ve been calling it the Ditchburn/Beck lock, as the molds were made from an original JP Beck lock by the late Bob Ditchburn. Bob first built this lock in the late 1950s with Stan taking over sometime around 2000. I am excited to be a part of this 60-plus-year legacy, and I can’t wait to have these locks once again being produced in volume and used in new guns!
Right now, I’m modeling the various components of the Ditchburn/Beck rifle lock in CAD and turning out prototype parts via CNC. These locks will be a hybrid of CNC machined and cast parts like some of the more recent arrivals to the market. The Ditchburn/Beck will be a premium product with no tuning needed when received by the customer. In addition to the standard features of most modern locks, I intend to use a hardened bridle, and a forged mainspring for ultimate longevity.
This thread is to meant to document the progress as I work through and get these first locks ready for release/sale. If you have any questions, please ask away.
Best to you all, and happy gun building!
Chris E.
Evrard Machine Works
PS. For those of you who don’t know me, I am a machinist and former lock builder for Chambers Flintlocks, having produced many thousands of locks for them over nine years. In fact, I still do machine work for Chambers today. I’ve done custom work for Brad Fountain, Tim Williams, Ron Scott, Allen Martin and others. I also built the lock that went into one of the CLA auction guns a few years back, though I cannot remember what year. Maybe someone will remind me!
(https://i.ibb.co/Mc4X5js/387413815-1375104953358374-2026808781944144477-n.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Here is one of the first CNC cut D/B lockplates:
(https://i.ibb.co/2s1LVjr/front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fnzK6CW)
Here are the machined bridles:
(https://i.ibb.co/mcD2FvR/bridles1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LZkchQ0)
(https://i.ibb.co/mBBTsWn/internals1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7zzCcm3)
(https://i.ibb.co/WtjP5pv/internals2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nCtnm8M)
-
Best of luck on this project Chris. ;) :-X
-
Oh man .. good stuff and exciting times !!
-
Very nice parts indeed :)
-
I cannot wait to get my hands on one! Congratulations and good luck!
-
Bring it!
-
Chris,
Will you be producing the smaller version of that lock as well ? I have purchased them in the past from Stan and found the smaller size to be perfect for several projects like pistols and smaller rifles (like the one I built recently for my grandson).
Best of luck with all of this. The parts in the photos look great !!
-
Chris
If you need that tiny little lock that Dave was referring to, I have one that you can use as a pattern.
Wayne
-
best of luck parts look good
-
Looks nice. So what parts are going to be castings?
Jim
-
That's great news! I can see one in my future.
-
Are these parts interchangable with the origial handmade locks ? I have one on a 54cal. deer rifle I built about 5 years ago, and after some fiddling and finding the right flint for it, I am very happy with it, Roland
-
Wow Chris great news! Good luck and keep us posted.
Anthony
-
Chris,
Will you be producing the smaller version of that lock as well ? I have purchased them in the past from Stan and found the smaller size to be perfect for several projects like pistols and smaller rifles (like the one I built recently for my grandson).
Best of luck with all of this. The parts in the photos look great !!
Dave,
Yes, that would be the pistol lock, and it will be next in production.
Thanks for your interest!
CE
-
Looks nice. So what parts are going to be castings?
Jim
Jim,
Like you, I will be casting the hammer/top jaw and frizzens.
Best,
CE
-
Are these parts interchangable with the origial handmade locks ? I have one on a 54cal. deer rifle I built about 5 years ago, and after some fiddling and finding the right flint for it, I am very happy with it, Roland
Roland,
Most parts will be interchangeable. The internals however would best be replaced as a unit (tumbler, sear and fly)
Best,
CE
-
Chris
If you need that tiny little lock that Dave was referring to, I have one that you can use as a pattern.
Wayne
Wayne,
Thank you. I am pretty good on pistol plates, but it is good to have options.
Good to meet you at Front Royal!
Best,
CE
-
I forgot to mention in my original post that Stan H. had also come up with what he called the "Early Beck" which was a slightly larger, longer version of the lock. I will also be adding that to the lineup after the pistol lock.
So, the "Standard" Beck will be the first produced, The "Pistol or Small" Beck will be second, and the "Early" Beck will be third.
CE
-
While I was making locks they were all a mix of cast parts such as all external parts were cast with a bench crafted mechanism and I hope you have a high rate of success.The market of today is more affluent than it was in past years.I came close to stopping any and all work for muzzle loading guns because of the mindset that said the lock HAS to be the cheapest part of the gun.An inquiry from Germany changed everything for us.The Germans had a very different view about the bench craftsman and paid quickly when the work was done and did not ask for price cuts.Most of the locks I sent to the Germans were based on the external parts of the L&R small Manton and their Percussion Schuetzen plate and hammers with a fancy mechanism I styled after a Stanton "3 pin"lock.I told the owners of L&R i really appreciated the fast help they gave me and they were glad for the sales.
The Chet Shoults Ketland was all castings except for the screws and the Cochran was 99% copied from the Shoults.The line of Russ Hamm locks were never intended to be a quality item.The Silers(Chambers)locks are good examples of all cast locks that have quality control and a recently mentioned lock from Canada,the Clark was a good one and good looking.
Jim Kibler's CNC lock making has set new standards and excludes the "gotta be cheap"ideas and I wish he'd hold off on that "Hawken" in favor of an English Manton styled half stock. IMHO,the Hawken Shop has that particular market well covered.OK,My rant is over and good
luck on this project.
Bob Roller
-
Congrats! Will you also be doing the triggers? That single-set trigger is one of my favorites, I'd hate to see it unavailable.
-
Hi Chris, good luck in your endeavor and I hope you succeed. It's exciting to see another person pursuing locks with a manufacturing method that produces tighter tolerances.
Will you be selling your locks on this forum, or will you have a web site?
-
Congrats! Will you also be doing the triggers? That single-set trigger is one of my favorites, I'd hate to see it unavailable.
That is something I've discussed with Stan. All I can say at this point is..... Maybe... :)
It is a cool trigger isn't it?
Thanks,
CE
-
Hi Chris, good luck in your endeavor and I hope you succeed. It's exciting to see another person pursuing locks with a manufacturing method that produces tighter tolerances.
Will you be selling your locks on this forum, or will you have a web site?
Thank you!
I really need to build a website but it is unlikely to happen before the first locks are ready for sale (one man show here!). If not I'll certainly put a for sale listing here.
Best,
CE
-
It's certainly heartening to see new components appear, or re-appear in this case. 'All the best on your efforts!
-
good news and good luck. its always good to hear that an old item will not be lost to time.
-
Hey All,
I've been making good progress on the Ditchburn/Beck Lock over the past month. I wish could work on it full time! I now have the cnc'd tumbler, fly, sear and bridle all sorted out, and I have a good start on the sear springs. Next in line is the Mainspring. When the Mainsprings are ready it'll be time to assemble and test a few locks. Yay!
Here are a few updates.
Working on Fly(s):
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0PoZbQJmzL/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Tumbler and Fly Function:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0STBWMpdv4/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I have some pics to share too, but apparently the picture server is down. I'll try uploading them later on or tomorrow.
Best,
Chris E.
-
Looking good Chris!
-
Hey Chris: Your new locks look wonderful! I especially like the sound of anew pistol lock being on the market. I will wait and see what comes from your bench before I make a purchase of a pair to go on matched pair for a cased set. These will be in the upper class realm of guns found at DSC. Anyway look forward to doing business with you. Hugh Toenjes
-
Looks like the image server is working again. Here are a few photos. The first is all of the various internals. There is a video of them working together in my previous post above.
(https://i.ibb.co/gJhm5Hz/internals3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fHLqhB4)
These are my sear spring bending jigs. After a bit of tuning they are working great and making nice neat eye and bend.
(https://i.ibb.co/SsNY5Wh/sear-spring2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YR2nPYz)
(https://i.ibb.co/YZxxxwL/sear-spring1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5FPPPwR)
Here I was experimenting with different methods of cutting the fly notch
(https://i.ibb.co/7jThZgB/Tumbler1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5GzZSYC)
This one I couldn't resist. My son Hap got his first pair of Calipers. He wants to be in the shop "measuring" with Daddy :D
(https://i.ibb.co/5TYZGYD/Hap1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Zsc7sV)
-
That’s a great father and son picture!
-
Good looking little boy.He reminds me of our only great grandson Archer Garret Jenkins.
He needs a muzzle loading boys rifle.That lock looks good and that tiny "fly".I have one
of my locks now with the old direct contact main springs that needs a fly to replace a lost
one.
Bob Roller
-
Chris it's good to see a high quality small lock being produced..
-
I forgot to mention in my original post that Stan H. had also come up with what he called the "Early Beck" which was a slightly larger, longer version of the lock. I will also be adding that to the lineup after the pistol lock.
So, the "Standard" Beck will be the first produced, The "Pistol or Small" Beck will be second, and the "Early" Beck will be third.
CE
Hopefully the Armstrong is on the list somewhere???
-
It's so exciting to see a new lock being produced and your little apprentice is doing a great job!
-
Chris it's good to see a high quality small lock being produced..
Or a high quality anything else pertaining to muzzle loaders or anything else.
Bob Roller
-
I forgot to mention in my original post that Stan H. had also come up with what he called the "Early Beck" which was a slightly larger, longer version of the lock. I will also be adding that to the lineup after the pistol lock.
So, the "Standard" Beck will be the first produced, The "Pistol or Small" Beck will be second, and the "Early" Beck will be third.
CE
Hopefully the Armstrong is on the list somewhere???
Yes! I did buy all of Stan H.'s Armstrong stuff too, and that will be on the list after the other Beck models. Stan's Armstrong was left handed so I will have to mirror it to make a right hand. I have a casting of an original signed Armstrong lock plate which will become the model for that lock. It is kind of cool that in the casting you can see where the pan was cut off to convert it to percussion.
Here are a few pics:
(https://i.ibb.co/TLCWL6c/20231212-084019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yS34St0)
(https://i.ibb.co/gPYxXY2/20231212-084048.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HxZjMZS)
(https://i.ibb.co/gmcwDyQ/20231212-084057.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kb8796B)
And thank you all for the comments and encouragement!
Best,
CE
-
Chris, this is great news. The Ditchburn is a great little lock. My question is will you, by chance, be doing Stan's F&I lock which was left hand? I have one on a gun now that I am building and it is great for early guns and would make us lefties extremely happy to have a quality choice.
-
Hey Scott,
I don't know that lock. I'll have to ask Stan about it this coming week. We're going to be forging some mainsprings up at his shop. I'll ask him about it then. There is another I know he was working on, but I cannot remember the name. It was a much later period than F&I though.
Best,
CE
-
Stan had a left hand Armstrong lock. A lot of us southpaw shooters would like to see that, especially since most of the other lockmakers are not willing to consider making one.
-
http://stanhollenbaughgunsmith.com/page3.html
Good luck Chris, they are nice locks!
Robby
-
Wishing you the best of luck.
I have an original Stan Hollenbaugh Ditchburn pistol lock I bought in 2009, unused except for watching the action.
What would it be valued at? I need a ball park figure. Already have an interested party.
I saw on Stan's website from 2020 that he was selling them for $225.
I see similar sized locks by Jim Chambers are selling for $295 and the Siler locks are selling for $22o.
-
Price it comparably to every thing else on the market today.
-
Price it comparably to every thing else on the market today.
Lew,495, My advice would be the same as Stoner creek above.
Best,
CE
-
Price it comparably to every thing else on the market today.
Like everything else,a willing seller and a willing BUYER.Locks,guns and cars,tools.$225 for a good quality lock is a bargain
in todays inflationry period.
Bob Roller
-
When can we expect those first locks (Ditchburn Beck) to be on the market? Or when they are going to be available?
-
Any updates? Cannot wait to make using your lock SOP for all my future Beck builds!
-
Congrats. Very exciting to see another quality program in this business. Good for you. Nice Instagram posts. Best wishes
-
I will interject here that Chris Evrard makes some super locks. I have two of the locks be built up and tuned (Chambers locks), and both are slick fine-sparking pieces. I wasn't looking for "cheap", I was looking for super quality, and Chris delivered. I will wager that the locks he's now building will be excellent as well. God Bless, Marc
-
Mr. Evrard, I am needing one of your Beck locks as soon as they are available. Let me know!
-
PM sent
-
Hey All,
Lets see if I can answer these questions. As for updates, I am currently working on springs. I finally have a sear spring I like. Tomorrow I am meeting with the company that is going to cut my blanks for me. I had been stacking the material and milling them for the prototypes. This is way too much work to be profitable with them, so laser cutting it is.......
The frizzen springs are going to be cast for now. Probably milled in the future. Anyhow, I got my castings annealed and built jigs to drill and tap them. The frizzen spring uses a blind screw so I have to tap it from the back side. Always fun!
I have forged a few main springs, but am still dialing that whole process in. I'm also adjusting and machining the bending jigs for this process. What a bear.
So once the springs are sorted out I just have to order the various grades of stock, machine the final parts and start assembling. Sounds easy right!?
As for my timeline, I was hoping to have locks to sell at the Carlisle show. That is unlikely at this point. Not only is my day job getting in the way, what is new? But unfortunately my niece passed away. My wife and son left to be with her family this morning and I am flying out this coming week. I still hope to have a example/sample lock or two for the show. But it is highly unlikely I'll have any to sell by then.
I sincerely appreciate all the interest. It is just a matter of time (where have I heard that before? lol).
Marc, Thank you so much for the compliment! It means a lot :)
Hoping everyone is having a prosperous and healthy New Year.
Best,
Chris E.
-
Chris,
I used 1144 "Stressproof" for tumblers,0-1 for "flies" and sears and 1018 Cold Finished low carbon for bridles and caplock plates.
1075 for internal springs and cast frizzen springs.These material are in locks all over the world and no reported failures. The 1018
can be case hardened if need arises.Screws were 12L14 and bought in whatever diameter the head of the screws were.These are
at least to me,all well proven for locks and triggers.I am now gazing into the twin muzzles of 88 years and hope you can take advantage
of my proven experiences with these materials.The 1144 machines like 12lL14 and is very easy to shape and hardens in oil like drill rod.
Bob Roller
-
Hey Chris, any update on this lock? I'd like to try one of your prototype mainsprings in my Hollenbaugh JP Beck lock! Is that possible?
-
Hey Tom,
It may be possible soon......
Right now the only thing I lack on the Ditchburn/Beck lock is the mainspring. I've been working on a few ways of going about making them but haven't settled on which option to use yet.
I don't want to do a milled mainspring as there are problems with these types of springs taking a "set" and losing strength.
So I've been working on several different ways of producing a cost effective forged spring. So far I have some good springs, but the "cost effective" element has eluded me. There are still a few things left to try so as time permits in the shop I'll be continuing to work this all out.
Thank you for your interest and I'll keep everyone updated as things come along.
Best,
Chris E.
-
No, there are no issues with a milled spring taking a set. Taking a set has absolutely nothing to do with the manufacturing process, but rather the material and the hardness it was tempered to.
Since we are about the only ones milling springs in quantities, I can only assume someone has made this assumption in regards to our locks. The first few locks we made didn’t have quite the right hardness and preload, resulting in a weaker spring. This was corrected long ago.
This assessment is coming not only a producer of locks, but also a degreed metallurgist.
-
The topic here is not anyone else's locks, or design. It is the return of the Ditchburn / Beck lock.
Thank you,
CE
No, there are no issues with a milled spring taking a set. Taking a set has absolutely nothing to do with the manufacturing process, but rather the material and the hardness it was tempered to.
Since we are about the only ones milling springs in quantities, I can only assume someone has made this assumption in regards to our locks. The first few locks we made didn’t have quite the right hardness and preload, resulting in a weaker spring. This was corrected long ago.
This assessment is coming not only a producer of locks, but also a degreed metallurgist.
-
You said there were problems with a milled spring taking a set. You were "correctly corrected"
One of my undergrad degrees is P. Met. Milling has no impact on springs taking a set.
-
You said there were problems with a milled spring taking a set. You were "correctly corrected"
One of my undergrad degrees is P. Met. Milling has no impact on springs taking a set.
See above. This thread is about the return of the Ditchburn/Beck lock, and how I am building it. If you wish to debate springs, our educations (or anything else) with me, send me a PM. I'll be happy to oblige you there. Alternatively start your own post.
Have a great day,
CE
-
If you wish to say something that isn’t correct and can have an impact on how our product is perceived you can expect correction.
If you are going to post on forums like this, you should expect questioning or dissent. A new topic or thread is not required as long as the post doesn’t violate forum rules and is on topic.
Have a great day
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKu7TYWNxqA
-
Chris keep at it..because a lot of us are looking forward to your lock..!!
-
Keep working at it Chris, and you’ll resolve the troubles. I’m stoaked for this lock to hit the market!
-
My little Beck fowler needs a heart transplant! I hope you will put me on the top of the list when they are available!
I appreciate your efforts!
-
Thanks guys! Also, thanks to everyone who has reached out. I just can't wait to get some more time in on this mainspring design/process.
I am so swamped with "regular" shop work right now. It is a great problem to have but I hate that it takes time away from the Ditchburn.
Best,
CE
-
One of the joys of a one man shop ;D ;D.Maybe your little apprentice can help.
Bob Roller
-
Hey All,
Lets see if I can answer these questions. As for updates, I am currently working on springs. I finally have a sear spring I like. Tomorrow I am meeting with the company that is going to cut my blanks for me. I had been stacking the material and milling them for the prototypes. This is way too much work to be profitable with them, so laser cutting it is.......
The frizzen springs are going to be cast for now. Probably milled in the future. Anyhow, I got my castings annealed and built jigs to drill and tap them. The frizzen spring uses a blind screw so I have to tap it from the back side. Always fun!
I have forged a few main springs, but am still dialing that whole process in. I'm also adjusting and machining the bending jigs for this process. What a bear.
So once the springs are sorted out I just have to order the various grades of stock, machine the final parts and start assembling. Sounds easy right!?
As for my timeline, I was hoping to have locks to sell at the Carlisle show. That is unlikely at this point. Not only is my day job getting in the way, what is new? But unfortunately my niece passed away. My wife and son left to be with her family this morning and I am flying out this coming week. I still hope to have a example/sample lock or two for the show. But it is highly unlikely I'll have any to sell by then.
I sincerely appreciate all the interest. It is just a matter of time (where have I heard that before? lol).
Marc, Thank you so much for the compliment! It means a lot :)
Hoping everyone is having a prosperous and healthy New Year.
Best,
Chris E.
You're using forged mainsprings (I do like that...), but are using cast frizzen springs and plan to use milled ones later. Is it because there is less stress in the frizzen spring? (Besides the ease of manufacture for such an ornate part).
From what I understand, in a cast part there is no grain flow to speak of, in a milled part you have to take into account the direction of the grain at critical stress points (ask anyone who bends sheet metal with a tight radius), and in a forged part the grain flows with the shape of the forging, which is why forging is preferred for high stress parts - and why forging generally allows for slimmer and trimmer springs.
-
I, too, am looking forward to the release of this lock.
I used the Robert Ditchburn stain on my first rifle built in 1996 and I still like the look of it today.
I wonder if that stain is still available (probably not). It was a red stain with some black undertones, verry appropriate for the Littlestown school of gunsmithing.
Sorry, no more hijacking of this thread.
-
It’s inspiring to see you develop this new lock and trying out best methods and materials. I have a hunch this lock will be quite popular. It looks really sleek and artistic. Another high quality option in the near future for those who want quality.
-
You're using forged mainsprings (I do like that...), but are using cast frizzen springs and plan to use milled ones later. Is it because there is less stress in the frizzen spring? (Besides the ease of manufacture for such an ornate part).
From what I understand, in a cast part there is no grain flow to speak of, in a milled part you have to take into account the direction of the grain at critical stress points (ask anyone who bends sheet metal with a tight radius), and in a forged part the grain flows with the shape of the forging, which is why forging is preferred for high stress parts - and why forging generally allows for slimmer and trimmer springs.
Yes, that is correct. I want to use a forged mainspring as they are the heart of the "action/lock." A well made forged spring is a thing to behold. Just play with some of the 2-3 hundred year old well made locks and you'll get goosebumps. At least I know I do!
Also yes, for the frizzen spring I am going to use cast springs for now and probably switch over to milled springs at some point. They don't flex near the distances that the mainspring does, but we'll see 2-3 hundred years from now how they do!
Also, Also yes, you are correct about grain structure. When I first started building locks years ago I poo-pooed the cast springs with their (gasp!) homogenous grain structure. I thought they couldn't be any good. It didn't take long to learn that a properly treated cast spring can be a very good spring indeed. We also have 60 plus years of data in the form of 10's of thousands of cast flintlock mainsprings out there. Do they ever fail? Sometimes, but their track record is nothing short of amazing. Milled mainsprings on the other hand we don't have much data on. Sure you can build up the weak areas on a milled mainspring to keep it from catastrophic, or other types, of failure, but that has effects on the rest of the spring and it's action as well.
There is a mountain of information out there on all of this, and 10X more opinions. So in short, I intend to use a forged mainspring on the Ditchburn lock. If I cannot make that work (economically) I'll go with a well made, properly treated cast spring. And I will never say never on milled mainsprings, but options 1 and 2 come first.
Incidentally I am still working on the design of my forging dies for the mainspring. I made a several prototype springs and am working on a few changes to both the spring and the dies right now. I'd hoped to show up at Kempton with a few, but that may be a bit ambitious! I've mentioned before how much my 40 hour (more like 60! most weeks) job cuts into my lock building time. Who knows, maybe one day I can divert the entire shop toward flintlock work. I'd like that!
Best,
Chris E.
-
I, too, am looking forward to the release of this lock.
I used the Robert Ditchburn stain on my first rifle built in 1996 and I still like the look of it today.
I wonder if that stain is still available (probably not). It was a red stain with some black undertones, verry appropriate for the Littlestown school of gunsmithing.
Sorry, no more hijacking of this thread.
I didn't buy that portion of Stan Hollenbaugh's business, but I know he still has some of the stains. You might reach out to him.
Best!
CE
-
It’s inspiring to see you develop this new lock and trying out best methods and materials. I have a hunch this lock will be quite popular. It looks really sleek and artistic. Another high quality option in the near future for those who want quality.
Thanks for the words Bob! Much appreciated.
Best,
CE
-
Chris, I applaud your dedication to making a product that you will be proud of , and appreciate your concern for quality. Your name will be in the lock. No one else’s. I emailed you when you first announced your project and expressed my interest in obtaining a lock. I appreciate your approach and desire to produce a quality product.
However long it takes to satisfy you is the proper approach .
Taking the time to do it right always is the right choice.
mikeyfirelock………..building rifles since 1972…finally getting fairly good at it.
-
Any updates?
Hopefully by Kempton or Carlisle I’ll be able to snag one!🤞
-
The best possible lock will give the performance needed and there is no substitute for quality and I am glad to see this lock being offered.
Bob Roller
-
Out of many many thousands ( won’t tell you exactly how many), we’ve never broken a mainspring. Given all of the potential issues with cast springs it’s silly to think a fully machined spring from bar would be inferior.
This is coming from a a metallurgist.
-
Any updates?
Hopefully by Kempton or Carlisle I’ll be able to snag one!🤞
John I am finally getting a little time to work on it! Hopefully not too much longer.
Best
CE
-
Out of many many thousands ( won’t tell you exactly how many), we’ve never broken a mainspring. Given all of the potential issues with cast springs it’s silly to think a fully machined spring from bar would be inferior.
This is coming from a a metallurgist
Your locks haven't been around that long. I don't care how much engineering and metallurgy goes into making a product. Things can and will break, give it time.
-
Out of many many thousands ( won’t tell you exactly how many), we’ve never broken a mainspring. Given all of the potential issues with cast springs it’s silly to think a fully machined spring from bar would be inferior.
This is coming from a a metallurgist
Your locks haven't been around that long. I don't care how much engineering and metallurgy goes into making a product. Things can and will break, give it time.
I don't even know what your statement really means. Are you suggesting that if I just wait a bit then I'm going to have springs start to break? Is 5-6 years in service not sufficient to determine if they are suitable? I would also ask what you are basing your opinions on. Please explain. This statement you made seems pretty weak at best.
Again, at over 6 figures worth of locks produced over the last 5-6 years, and not one broken mainspring, I think that any reasonable person would conclude it's a very good process. There are things I worry about, but this is about last on the list.
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to engage with silly statements like this.
Jim Kibler
Metallurgical Engineer
-
Decision of the moderators: Further responses on this topic should relate to the process and progress in bringing the Ditchburn lock back and available to builders again. Other responses not relating to that endeavor will be removed.
Anyone wanting a topic on the reliability and performance of mainsprings produced by different methods should start a new topic on that subject. This thread has strayed too far for too long.
-
I'm glad there are a number of people making great locks available for a relatively small, niche market. Because I don't want to. ;D
-
I'm glad there are a number of people making great locks available for a relatively small, niche market. Because I don't want to. ;D
Neither do I anymore.Enough was enough and now I seldom think about it beyond what I post here.Most locks seen on American guns are a simple design and I have made them but preferred the English designs for mechanisms and made some for the few that appreciated them,
Maybe 40 full size and 8 smaller ones.Springs,once a style is selected and material bought are the engines of any lock and I recall the earlier cast mainsprings that were the source of wrecked stocks.I used cast frizzen springs and they seemed to work.I have locks and triggers all over Europe and so far so good.
Bob Roller
-
Decision of the moderators: Further responses on this topic should relate to the process and progress in bringing the Ditchburn lock back and available to builders again. Other responses not relating to that endeavor will be removed.
Anyone wanting a topic on the reliability and performance of mainsprings produced by different methods should start a new topic on that subject. This thread has strayed too far for too long.
Much appreciated Mods!
CE
-
I'm glad there are a number of people making great locks available for a relatively small, niche market. Because I don't want to. ;D
I'm surprised and thankful that anyone is putting in the time and expense to bring any new lock to market, since I don't see it as a magical road to riches .
BTW, Eric, I still have an advertisement you did some 30 years ago offering hand made locks at a surprisingly low price ! I wish I had the sense then to buy a couple ;D
-
Appreciate the update, and hard work you are putting into this. It was a large investment for you and I hope it pays dividends. I know im here waiting to make a purchase 🙏🤞
-
Chris, is there any updates on your progress?
Also, what style of rifles could this lock be used on? I know it is not the typical lock type to be used on a southern mountain rifle, but could it correctly be used on any type of southern mountain rifle?
-
Hey All,
I meant to post an update last week to HighUintas query.
I have nothing new to report on the Beck lock unfortunately. I have been devoting all my time to my 9-5 lately. I just finished up a 15K piece order of turned parts for the Chambers family. I also have something big coming down the pike that has required all my hours as of late. I cannot say quite yet what it is (ooooooooh....the mystery.......... ;D)
Planning on having Beck/Ditchburns ready the first quarter of 2025.
Thanks everyone!!!!
Chris E.
-
As a former lock maker I am glad to see the major upgrades across the whole spectrum of this line of work.Also a big THANKS to L&R for selling all I needed in external parts to make locks for export to Germany..
Bob Roller
-
Hey All, just a quick update as I haven’t posted in some time. Over the past several months, I’ve been working closely with Chambers Flintlocks to help transition their lock line into CNC production. We began with the Siler and Deluxe Siler locks—their most widely used models—and now have shipped them the first batches of parts. This marks a significant shift for the future of their production. It’s a careful, deliberate process, and we’re planning to bring more of their well-known locks models into production as we move forward. It’s been a privilege to be part of this project, knowing how much it could mean for lock availability and consistency in the years to come. There’s a lot of talk these days about CNC and innovation, but we’re building on a foundation of proven designs, tested and trusted over many decades by professional builders and hobbyist who know what they’re looking for!
As for the Ditchburn-Beck flintlock, my initial hope was to have it re-released by the first quarter of 2025, but the timeline has shifted a bit. I'm now setting my sights on the Kempton Gunbuilders Fair in July 2025. Just this week, I sent out a batch of Ditchburn parts to none other than L.C. Rice, who will be handling the assembly. Having someone of his stature and depth of experience involved is a milestone in itself. If all goes as planned, we’ll have locks ready for sale at Kempton. This project has taken time, but the foundations being laid now—both with Chambers and with the Ditchburn-Beck—feel like steps toward something enduring. We’re not trying to reinvent the wheel—we’re refining it with the benefit of long experience and skilled hands.
Thanks for all your continued support and as always, if you have any questions just let me know.
Best, CE
-
Very cool, Chris. Pace yourself!
-
That’s great news Chris thanks for the update.
-
Thanks for the update Chris! I can't wait to get one and replace the weak Ditchburn lock on my Beck Fowler. I can't make it to Kempton this year, how can I get one of the first batch?
-
I am not a metallurgist or even a decent lock maker. But I have played around with such things for just about 50 years now. Cast springs are an abomination. When I was building BPCR match rifles for people in the 1990s I would pitch the cast mainsprings and put in CIVIL WAR SURPLUS springs that SFAIK were made by a sub contractor in Bridgeport Conn. Who did lock internal parts for Spencer and Sharps. I suspect since they are all the same that there surely was machine forging and then some milling machine work, and obviously some filing, again they are all interchangeable, a made in the 1860s drop in part for a rifle made last week. They had to make 150000 or more of these things in the course of that war along with similar numbers of other internals. So making high quality lock springs in large numbers before modern investment casting is not new. CNC machines have been an upgrade to the 1850s-60s operation. I think that Jim’s springs are great. Very consistent. Strong and lively. Now is it possible that one of Jim’s springs might break? ANYTHING is “possible”, but “likely”? That is a different thing.
-
That is great news about the Chambers locks.
-
Thanks for the update Chris! I can't wait to get one and replace the weak Ditchburn lock on my Beck Fowler. I can't make it to Kempton this year, how can I get one of the first batch?
Hey Tom,
Will Send you a PM.
Thanks and Best to you!
CE
-
This thread is about the Ditchburn lock and let’s try to limit it to that and not a broader discussion of approaches Joe or Sam or Bill use in their locks. I recognize that threads and conversations wander but let’s start new topics instead of piggybacking if something else is of particular interest. I might suggest : “Cast versus machined versus forged mainsprings: does it make any difference, or is design and heartbeat the real decider? . Heck I’m going to do that now.
-
The countdown to Kempton begins… I cannot wait to get my hands on one of these!
-
That is a good looking lock and if a cast mainspring has proven reliable then use it.Forging them is time consuming and I made them in the old style for a long time before changing to the linked style.Sell them and consider them as a well done job.
Bob Roller
-
I have to say, if Chris builds it, it will be excellent. I have two of his modified and tuned Chambers locks and they are really fine pieces of mechanical joy. God bless, Marc
-
Thanks for the LOVE everyone!!! ;D
LC Rice is building locks as I write. I am in the shop right now trying to finish up a few bits and pieces too! And of course I am short a few screws so I'll have to fire up the OmniTurn lathe as well.
Hope to see a lot of you at Kepmton!
Best,
CE
-
Chris, I would like to purchase a lock, but like others, won't be at Kempton. I sent you a pm
Steve
-
Chris, I would like to purchase a lock, but like others, won't be at Kempton. I sent you a pm
Steve
Replied with email. Thanks!
CE
-
Chris, you got mail !
Steve
-
Any release date yet on the pistol lock?
-
Any release date yet on the pistol lock?
No not yet. I will make an announcement on ALR though.
Thanks,
CE
-
I’ve got a Brennan gun heading this way in the mail. Jud put one of those tiny Ditchburn locks on it. I’ll post pictures when it gets here.
-
I’ve got a Brennan gun heading this way in the mail. Jud put one of those tiny Ditchburn locks on it. I’ll post pictures when it gets here.
Thank you. Can't wait to see it!
Best,
CE
-
Hey All,
Just an update. The Kempton Gunbuilder's Fair was great. We had Ditchburn/Beck locks for sale there. Not as many as I would have liked, but again, we were scrambling to get everything together in time for the show.
Unfortunately I was only able to be there on Saturday as we had an emergency back home and left Saturday night. I have not yet talked to LC who was there for the whole show. Hopefully I can catch up with him today and see if we have any locks left over for those who have put their names on the list.
We are going to get another run of parts in the works as there appears to be a healthy market for the Ditchburn/Beck!
It was great to see everyone. Thank you all so much for your interest and feedback.
Best,
Chris E.
-
Very nice looking locks. Anyone wanting a lock a bit smaller than the large Siler (JP Beck seemed to use smaller locks) should check thus one out.
-
What is the length of this lock?
Thank you
-
I picked up one of these locks from Chris at the Gun Maker's Fair. The lock is very smooth, sparks well, and looks outstanding. I highly recommend this lock.
-
What is the length of this lock?
Thank you
J Shingler,
The Standard Ditchburn-Beck lock is 4 3/4 in. long.
Not to confuse things but we will be coming out with what Stan Hollenbaugh called the "Early Beck" too. It is 4 15/16 long.
Best,
CE