AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: cshirsch on February 06, 2024, 09:38:53 PM
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I found this in an online auction and I had to have it. The barrel is 16 3/4" long, in about .38 caliber. I am fairly confident that it is southern made. The barrel appears to have been sliced together about midway, possibly forge welded. It is rifled all the way and there are no snags or anomalies when I run a patch down the bore. The under rib, ramrod pipe and front sight are old and match the gun perfectly. Interseting piece and I love it.
(https://i.ibb.co/1GS66rT/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/60dBBHF)
(https://i.ibb.co/v1m1R73/2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dB6BxdP)
(https://i.ibb.co/8BTKyZY/3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3sGrxZR)
(https://i.ibb.co/ydShPk5/4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/176sQXK)
(https://i.ibb.co/1QBJHD6/5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yPKBLwS)
(https://i.ibb.co/nPzfXyf/6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tL8c06c)
(https://i.ibb.co/6nXwF6v/7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FxH3zGs)
(https://i.ibb.co/KFCJVSV/8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V2XsM5M)
(https://i.ibb.co/Rhch7sQ/9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n3j3RYQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/x6NN4JH/10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1TkkS86)
(https://i.ibb.co/BCBM3Px/11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5RLH49y)
(https://i.ibb.co/tX7ph6S/12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3zDmsbw)
(https://i.ibb.co/cQT1Qct/13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CQ0zQ5v)
(https://i.ibb.co/6DXDRF2/14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HGhGDq0)
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Long barrel for sure, but a bear pistol - not likely at all. Even if .50 cal. I would not call it a bear pistol.
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Long barrel for sure, but a bear pistol - not likely at all. Even if .50 cal. I would not call it a bear pistol.
IMHO, 'bear pistol' is just a name given to these long barreled pistols. There does not seem to be any early records showing these type pistols were ever used to hunt bear. I think it is a more modern moniker. I certainly would NEVER shoot a bear with a .38 cal. anything.
CH
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Long barrel for sure, but a bear pistol - not likely at all. Even if .50 cal. I would not call it a bear pistol.
IMHO, 'bear pistol' is just a name given to these long barreled pistols. There does not seem to be any early records showing these type pistols were ever used to hunt bear. I think it is a more modern moniker. I certainly would NEVER shoot a bear with a .38 cal. anything.
CH
(Spock eyebrow raise)
It was my understanding that family tradition at least linked the Matt Gillespie and the Montreville Plott pistols with bear hunting. The Plott pistol has a comparatively short barrel, but the Gillespie piece fits the usual criteria for a "bear pistol" pretty well, and is where the moniker comes from, I think.
As for caliber considerations, I don't think what someone might do today while hunting under modern game laws and fair chase conventions have much bearing on what earlier generations might use to dispatch black bears treed by packs of hounds or caught in traps (whether steel legholds or wooden pens). I don't want to risk the wrath of the moderators be specifically bring up modern cartridges, but I think it is pretty evident that up until a couple generations ago there were a lot of folks that were comfortable hunting big game, even bear, using loads that would be considered woefully inadequate today. As for why, I suspect that better levels of marksmanship and stalking skills, different hunting techniques, less concern about potential suffering on the part of the prey, and less (or no) influence by commercial interests competing for the ammunition market by hawking more and more powerful products were all factors.
In other words, I bet that if you are in a position to walk right up to the bear and put the muzzle to its ear, a .38 pistol works just fine...
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Nice find. Congratulations. We would have been bidding against each other if I had seen it. :)
Thanks for sharing.
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Interesting discussion on this pistol. The barrel joint looks like a precision machining job. That unique and fascinating sear adjustment screw looks like something added for target shooting. I don’t see a half cock notch. Does it have one? I like the pistol and sure would like to know more about the barrel extension. Thanks for posting it and giving us so much to ponder.
I am aware of close range dispach of large animals with small firearms, not that I would choose that method.
Bill Paton
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Interesting discussion on this pistol. The barrel joint looks like a precision machining job. That unique and fascinating sear adjustment screw looks like something added for target shooting. I don’t see a half cock notch. Does it have one? I like the pistol and sure would like to know more about the barrel extension. Thanks for posting it and giving us so much to ponder.
I am aware of close range dispach of large animals with small firearms, not that I would choose that method.
Bill Paton
Actually the spot where this is an apparent joint is not an even joint. It is rather crooked there. If it were done on a lathe, it would be a squared up, even line.
(https://i.ibb.co/XZYMB6w/15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vxXR5ft)
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Nice find. Congratulations. We would have been bidding against each other if I had seen it. :)
Thanks for sharing.
With the buyer's premium and the outrageous shipping cost, it was not a bargain. Still, I do like it a lot.
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CH,
I have to agree with you. I couldn’t see that in the original views. I’m even more intrigued now!
Bill Paton
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CH,
I have to agree with you. I couldn’t see that in the original views. I’m even more intrigued now!
Bill Paton
Thanks Bill. It is rather puzzling.
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(1) Super cool! Great pistol.
(2) I have never seen an old forge weld like that with that precise a line. I'm really not sure what I'm seeing but I too am extremely intrigued.
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I wonder if the barrel didn't sit leaning in a bucket of rust remover, browning, or some such solution at the line level?
Do you see anything similar in the inside of the barrel?
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John, I think you may have (de)solved this mystery! Smart thinking “inside the can”. The line shows up on the rib also, which I missed before. Now, if the breech and tang are different finishes compared to the other iron parts, I suspecr somebody soaked the breech and tang in something more mild than rust remover to try to unbreech the barrel. I think rust remover would probably have been harsher in changing the finish, but some penetrating chemicals may have been gentler. If the breech end and tang match the other iron parts, the muzzle was probably soaked (less likely).
CH, Can you carry this ball and tell us what you think?
Bill Paton
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There are also some faint "tooth marks" right at the joint seen in one picture at least, almost like the barrel was held in a pair of pliers or vice at that spot, maybe when it was being dunked or de-breeched.
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I wonder if the barrel didn't sit leaning in a bucket of rust remover, browning, or some such solution at the line level?
Do you see anything similar in the inside of the barrel?
Good eye.
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Chris,
Neat looking pistol. The silver inlays and long tang can't help but remind me of the Jamestown School in North Carolina.
I have seen nine Jamestown pistols in the past. Five of them were signed, four had no signature. I have three of them in my collection.
Most of the examples I have seen were underhammer percussion, but three
were similar architecture to your pistol. Without a barrel signature or double dovetailed front sight, we will never know for sure, but I suspect it is from here.
Thanks for posting it.
Michael Briggs
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Chris,
Neat looking pistol. The silver inlays and long tang can't help but remind me of the Jamestown School in North Carolina.
I have seen nine Jamestown pistols in the past. Five of them were signed, four had no signature. I have three of them in my collection.
Most of the examples I have seen were underhammer percussion, but three
were similar architecture to your pistol. Without a barrel signature or double dovetailed front sight, we will never know for sure, but I suspect it is from here.
Thanks for posting it.
I would love to see some photos of the pistols mentioned. Thanks
Michael Briggs
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Beautiful find defiantly one of kind
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Chris,
Neat looking pistol. The silver inlays and long tang can't help but remind me of the Jamestown School in North Carolina.
I have seen nine Jamestown pistols in the past. Five of them were signed, four had no signature. I have three of them in my collection.
Most of the examples I have seen were underhammer percussion, but three
were similar architecture to your pistol. Without a barrel signature or double dovetailed front sight, we will never know for sure, but I suspect it is from here.
Thanks for posting it.
Michael Briggs
I would love to see some photos of the pistols you mentioned.
Chris
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Any idea of the time frame when the Jamestown pistols were being made?
(When I saw the pistol originally posted I was struck by the resemblance to several pistols made in OH post-1870. I've always thought of these pistols as being single-shots inspired by revolvers. One, made by JN Maxey probably about 1870, is very close to a Colt 1860 in dimensions and balance. I've often wondered if perhaps the makers or buyers were thinking of pistols seen/handled/carried during the war.)