Best factory rifle or kit for first rifle?

[roundball]

And the T/C Hawken is 1-48" twist. This is a factory built version, not the kit.

Just to be clear, the T/C Hawken comes with your choice of the following barrels:

28" x 1:48" shallow groove round ball & conical barrel

31" x 1:66" deep groove slow twist round ball barrel

If considering a used gun, T/C's real lifetime warranty can be a big plus as there's zero risk buying a used one

[Roger Fisher]

Hi Guys,


All of you have given me great advice which I shall do my best to follow! IIRC, Gary Cooper said in the movie "Sgt. York" while talking with his CO, "ya'all have given me a powerful lot to think about" !

In that spirit I say THANK YOU!

For the most part I am pretty good when it comes to mechanical things like cars & motorcycles and I've built a few custom bikes for myself and friends. To a lesser extent I have experience working on firearms. I am somewhat familiar with refinishing stocks (sanding, stain, final finish matte to gloss), and I have done minor work on my pistols such as fitting sears, springs, safeties, etc., along with proper maintenance.
.
I also have some experience with metal finishing (glassbeading, polishing, and cold bluing) I do not have experience with browning, rust bluing, &  hot bluing.I do have a basic understanding of the processes but no hands on time.

I used to reload metallic cartridges and work on the best load for my firearms. I was more interested in accuracy than getting the most power or distance.

Now at 53, (well,next month I will be! LOL), I find that modern firearms have lost some of their appeal and interest. I shot my first rifle (Remington bolt ,22 long )at 10 years old and I was hooked!I am hoping to find the "appeal" or whatever it is in BP firearms. As a newbie to BP I know that I have alot to learn but I believe that I'm up to the task.

While looking at pictures of muzzleloaders and tutorials on the forum that people built at home or shop I was awestruck at the absolute beauty of these "smokepoles"! I don't believe that there are any modern firearms that can compare!

Last night I went looking for muzzleloading clubs in my state (Maryland), and I was surprised to only find three clubs! Two of them are nearly 80 miles away while the closest is about 40-50 miles (rough estimate). The closest club has muzzleloading but the primary genre is modern guns and functions for BP are only a couple per year if I read the description correctly.

This Monday I'll try calling a club officer and get more info.



Thanks again,

Martin


PS: I may be able to get a factory T/C Hawken 50 or 54 cal for around $200.00 or so. The wood could probably use a refinishing but the metal is 90% +. Is this a good deal or should I still get the Lyman GPR?

Well Jeez how about southern Pennsylvania?  Plenty clubs.  You have a friend in Pa but you just don't know it yet!

[Daryl]

I'm with the GPR kits, Martin.  I've seen a quack of them shoot and shoot well they certainly do.  With a bit of minor tinkering, liek removing the hump at the tang, and straightening out the belly of the stock, it will come closer to an original plains rifle than any other in the price range.

The TC's have a great warrantee on factory made guns. I don't know about TC kit parts though, however they are TC's and far from the great appearance of the Lyman.

Perhaps if Taylor is watching this thread, he can post a picture of the one he re-shaped for Brian.

[John SMOthermon]

Martin, take a look at the T/C then look at the GPR which one do you like the best? I own a GPR .54cal flintlock and 2 T/C Hawkens in .45 and .50 cal perc.. They will all shoot one ragged hole out to 50 yds, if i do my part. I'm sure they would do better at futher distances  with someone with better eyesight. The GPR has more of a crescent stock than the T/Cs. As Roundball said the T/C warranty is hard to beat,I like the T/C better than the GPR even though the GPR is more traditional looking. My GPR shoots best at 100 grns of fffg goex and after a day of shooting you can tell you have been at the range. The T/Cs shoot better at 45 to 65 grns of fffg with the 1 in 48 twist. I also have 2  .50 cal T/C Renegades which have iron furniture and a straighter butt plate. They also will shoot one hole groups. It is really a matter of what you like the best , what looks the best to you and more importantly what feels the best to you.

[Dancy]

For $200 buy the TC and get some soot on your hands. If you like this sport you may want something more authentic than either of those rifles can offer. If so, sell the TC and get your money back for a down payment on a more historicaly accurate longrifle. Warning, this can be habit forming... but no modern rifle can compare to the feeling a true longrifle gives ya!

[Martin_G]

I've contacted both sellers earlier who have the T/C Hawkens. The first one is 50 cal. and around $220.00 before shipping. Since posting earlier I found out that it needs something for the ramrod and from the picture it may be missing the thimbles. Overall appearance IMO is about a "C" grade. A "C +" would be pushing it. I do not know what replacement parts will cost .

The other guy (an FFL), has a 54 cal. The price is $275.00 and it appears that it needs nothing. The stock is darker than the 50 cal., and has a much better overall appearance and IMO is a solid B grade. The metal looks nice too.

BTW, seller #2 (54cal.) was quick to answer my email. I am still waiting on seller #1 .

Both of them have battle scars( light scratches) but don't appear to have dents or gouges.

And last but not least we have critter #3, the Lyman GPR in 54cal. NIB in kit form.  The price is $320.00.

Ideally, I wish that I could afford the Lyman and one of the T/C Hawkens but I can't swing it right now. Do ya'all still feel the Lyman is worth buying considering the difference in price?

(Geez, I haven't had this much difficulty making a choice since I was a kid. LOL!)
 


Thanks,

Martin

[John SMOthermon]

The GPR is well worth the price......but so are the T/Cs .It really depends on how quick you want to get to shooting. The T/C will come ready to go and the GPR will take a little while to assemble. You will still need to get other necessities prior to a range trip That's one thing about shooting b/p  you can always find something you need or think you need to buy or make .

[roundball]

I accumulated several T/C Hawkens over the course of 18 years...bought every one used in the $200-$300 range, some standard barrels, some round ball barrels, some I installed Green Mountain .28 and .20 gauge smoothbore drop-in  barrels...an outstanding 18 years of learning / shooting / hunting that never broke the bank doing a little each year.

Stocks are simple to refinish if you want to, parts are inexpensive, warranty is second to none in the indistry...ie: on two occasions I had a slight crack begin to appear in the stocks and T/C simply had me send them in, and within a week to 10 days I had brand new replacement stocks with all new furniture installed, etc.

Some will say that a GPR "looks" a little more traditional...but the bottom line is they aren't 100% "HC" traditional either...if I was you, based on my personal experiences with T/Cs, I'd get the .54cal you mentioned as a good starting point, go learn and enjoy and you're interests will evolve...or not...into the future.

Enjoy!

[John SMOthermon]

I accumulated several T/C Hawkens over the course of 18 years...bought every one used in the $200-$300 range, some standard barrels, some round ball barrels, some I installed Green Mountain .28 and .20 gauge smoothbore drop-in  barrels...an outstanding 18 years of learning / shooting / hunting that never broke the bank doing a little each year.

Stocks are simple to refinish if you want to, parts are inexpensive, warranty is second to none in the indistry...ie: on two occasions I had a slight crack begin to appear in the stocks and T/C simply had me send them in, and within a week to 10 days I had brand new replacement stocks with all new furniture installed, etc.

Some will say that a GPR "looks" a little more traditional...but the bottom line is they aren't 100% "HC" traditional either...if I was you, based on my personal experiences with T/Cs, I'd get the .54cal you mentioned as a good starting point, go learn and enjoy and you're interests will evolve...or not...into the future.

Enjoy!

Well said Roundball,They are great rifles for the money!

[Daryl]

I am concerned about the TC's - a distant secondly, due to their appearance.  My primary problem with any factory rifle, is what was used in it for powder.  Pyrodex and T-7, along with the new IRM White Hots all contain Potassium Percholates - freely admitted in the 2009 Hodgdon Anual Manual. This stuff in itself is highly corrosive.  I've seen 2 TC barrels used for 2 years with the stuff, rotted one end to the other, owned by the same guy who roted two Gm barrels in the same length of time using the same powders. I would be mightily concerned over the condition of any used production rifle's condition inside.  Re-barreling is going to increase the price of those to well over what the Lyman costs, which has a brand new Gm barrel, known for their accuracy. Those guns as well, most likely have a buttoned barrel with the normal .004" rifling in their 48" of twist.

A Lyman GPR in .50 or .54 would be much preferred - to me.


I guess that shows where my vote goes, Martin.  The Lyman kits are easy to put together, as is the one 'change' to design I'd make, and that's the take the slight  hump out of the tang, just bck from the breech .

[Martin_G]

Daryl,

Are you referring to the stock Lyman GPR? I understand that the barrels are a 1-60"  and made in Italy so they couldn't be a GM.


Thx,

Martin

PS: I hope I'm not misunderstanding you!

[Daryl]

Oh yeah - they shoot as well as GM's.  It is GM who makes/made conversion barrels for them, and for TC's.  There are a number of GPR's at the big Rendezvous here and they all shoot exceptionally well. One of them is owned by one of our local guys who is tough to beat when he's shooting the rifle.

[Leatherbelly]

  Martin,
  Maybe just buy the Lyman kit and fix it up a bit and you'll have passable period correct plains rifle. A little work around the tang and the belly in the buttstock and they look just fine.Later on you might want a replacement flintlock fitted up and L&R make a nice lock for a replacement. Just a thought.