.32 questions

[billd]

I shoot my .32 today and am not too happy with the results.  The best I could do is about 1 1/2" at 25 yards.  5 shoot groups were typically 3 shots in a quarter and 2 fliers with no apparent reason. I did have a couple of fliers go about 3" out.

It's a A weight 42" 48 twist Paris barrel that I've had sitting here for years. I did steelwool the bore before the first trip to the range. I shot almost 100 shots today. 

I tried loads from 15 grains to 35 grains in 5 grain increments. 30 was best, but not good. 15 grains was second best.   I had .311 balls, both my home cast ones and some from Rush Creek.  The .012 patches loaded with almost no resistance and were pretty shredded after the shot. The .018 pillow ticking loaded tighter, but still very smooth. Patches were in very good shape after firing. I tried both Lehigh and Hoppes patch lube.   Nothing I did seemed to make any significant improvements. 

I have never shot anything smaller than a .45 until today.

Is a light .32 more critical to load, such as getting the sprue perfectly centered?  Or ramrod pressure on the load? The fliers really have me puzzled and disapointed. I'm thinking it's something I did wrong.

Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Bill

[david50]

a .311 ball with a .012 patch sounds awful tight to me, i cant imagine trying to load my .32 with an .018 but every barrel is different.  i'd try a thinner patch say a .010 and see if it helps.

[BrownBear]

I'd try two things. 

No. 1 if you're not doing it, is work to get consistent seating pressures.  And No.2, since those .018 patches appear to be holding up fine, I'd tinker with lubes.  My own 32 doesn't come into its own till I use a grease-type lube rather than a liquid.  Others might also work quite well, but I'm real happy with my 2:1 mix of deer tallow and olive oil.

I guess if there's a No.3, it would be simply shooting lots more.  Though it's been sitting around for years, that's basically a new barrel.

[Daryl]

bill, sounds as if you're on the right track with patch thickness.  As brownbear indicated, now it's powder charge quantity and lube.  I'd also try some patches varying only a few though in thickness. I doubt a .015" patch will hold up, but stanger things have happened.  I'd be inclined to try some .020" patches are well- trying denim and thicking in a thickness from .017" to .020", making sure seating depth is the same each shot and practice with the rifle. Different bullseye configuration and size can make a big difference in group size.  The normal way to go is to something big and easy to see. This opens groups in my experience. I've found a 4" to 5" at most, round or square bull is the best for group shooting. If you strain a bit to see it and align the sights, you get a 'finer' bead than if you've got a bit aiming point.
Good luck.

[willyr]

I have never owned a .32 cal. muzzleloader that did not like a tight ball/patch combination. I have used a .323 round ball and .017 "plain ticking" patching since the old days with a Douglas barrel. The GM .32 I'm shooting now likes that ball/patch combination and 35 gr. ffg powder. Patch lube thru the years has been soapy water for target shooting and olive oil for a hunting lube. I am a firm believer in the K. I. S. S. method of doing things- no magic formulas. The olive oil works for me and I am in a climate with a fairly wide range in both temperature and humidity during squirrel season.
     With the .311 ball and .012 patching, I don't think you're tight enough.
Be Well,
Bill Ridout

[Gene Carrell]

I agree that .012 patch is not enough. My 32cal squirrel rifle likes to see 30gr 3Fg with a .310 rb patched  with .017+/-  washed  pillow tick  grease lubed only. Every barrel seems  to be different, but this Martin bbl only likes grease. Whatever you do, find a load that does not allow a buildup of fouling. The  smaller cals do  not appreciate any buildup.  I think that if you keep fouling soft and use a tight rb/patch combination to drive it to the top of your powder, you will be on the right track. Enjoy,

[Daryl]

Bill and Gene - good stuff.

[Dphariss]

You can try Neatsfoot oil as well. It has worked well for years for a lot of shooters. Neatsfoot (or oilve oil) and beeswax will make a grease that may work well. Keep adding oil till the consistency is right. Start at 1:1 by weight. If too stiff add about that much more oil.
I have found that SPG Bullet Lube rubbed on one side of the patch gives great accuracy in my 54 but requires too much wiping for anything but very serious shooting.
Try cutting patches at the muzzle this might help as well.
I have no idea the bore size but you will likely need a ball within .010-.005" of the bore and a heavy patch.

Dan

[billd]

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. I will try different lube next time out.

I stopped in Dixon's today and Greg suggested a larger ball rather than a thicker patch so I picked up some .315 balls.  I won't have time to try them till next Friday or Monday now that the clocks got changed.

I know it's not my shooting because I can pick up one of my other guns and shoot good groups at the same target.  I just felt I was doing something wrong in the loading process.  Like I said in my original post, the fliers have me puzzled.

Thanks,
Bill

[Daryl]

Bill, don't be afraid to try an even larger ball with that .018" patch. I find the small bores easy to shoot with oversize balls - especiallycompared to larger bores. In my .36, I shot .375" RB's with a .022" denim patch. I did use a steel rod but it wasn't necessary.  The muzzle had a good funnel, polished smooth to allow the ball and patch to swage into the bore itself. Of course a ball this size turned into a short slug, round-ball shape on each end.  Once into the muzzle, they loaded easily in the slick bore using spit for target or bear grease for plinking in the bush.

 I'm not suggesting you try a .34cal ball, just to show what you can actually do with small, soft, easily swaged balls.  Maybe a .320" ball will be the 'ticket' to great accuracy in your rifle.

 The muzzle crown's shape and finish is very important. The tip of your thumb or index finger and 320 emery cloth with some oil, even WD40, works wonders, followed by a tapered stone wrapped in 400 grit wet or dry. A very smooth radius is what you're looking for. Once swaged in, it's a piece of cake to seat it. A short starter, of course is needed.  I use an antler's base for the handle with a 4" to 6" shaft of hickory.  The antler gives some weight over wood, and it only takes a light smack with the palm to seat the patched ball into the muzzle, then another with the shaft to seat it down far enough to seat on the powder with the rod.

 Note the short brass stud sticking out the end of the starter knob.  This is placed on top of the ball sitting on the patch. One smack on the other end and this short stud puts the ball and patch down into the bore about 1/4". From there it's a push or light smack to seat it down the 4 to 6" of the shaft. This all takes just a couple seconds to do.  It is not time consuming loading - faster even than fighting with a long rod to get a thinly patched load started.
: Note, the short starter is NOT used as a hammer to tap, tap, tap on the ball. Tap, tap tapping only distrots the ball. Putting it down into the muzzle with the cupped end of the short stud does not damage the ball in the slightest. The brass end on the starter's shaft is also cupped and does not damage the ball in the slightest.  I use appropriate ctg. brass with rims turned off for starter tips and studs. They are cupped using an electric drill. All easy stuff. You can even purchase them.
 I should also add that the leadther 'pad' on the shaft is to protect the muzzle when smacking the starter's top to seat the ball down into the bore.  Taylor and I pretty much use the same methods to load and both take only about 12 to 15 seconds to load our rifles when at the range.  Maybe this is why we have so much trouble with mirage - 
 Edited to include this last couple paragraphs and picture.

[Roger Fisher]

Bill: You didn't say if your results are offhand or from a rest, (log,chunk,s stix or of course bench).   No one else asked I would say if you shot at 25 yds from some such rest holy hanna or some such!!  If it was offhand could the fliers have been you???   Just a question to help!

I would say that from a rest at 25 yds your rifle should shoot better than that even if you shoot w/o a doggone rag wrapped ball!

As posted earlier load 'em tight in a good bore!  I use (for sighting in) a black,black cross on white white paper with the bars being 5/8 in wide so I can see them! This being at 25 yds rest.!

Let us know how it goes. 

BTW 'we' have a ham and wine shoot this coming Sunday - incl a turkey head knock down offhand at 75 yds 2 shots for 3 bucks for a ham ...plus all the rest of the matches.....

[eagle24]

I shoot a .315 ball with pillow ticking patch that mics .013 and mine shoots them all in a dime size hole at 25 yards BR, but I have found that the lube is critical.  The first time I took my .32 to the range it shot the one hole group with .30 grains of fffg.  I found very little difference in the group size using from 20 - 40 grains of fffg.  I was using a friends range lube that day.  A few days later, I went to the range and couldn't get better than 1-1/2" groups from 25 yards unsing a "moose milk" formula I had gotten off one the muzzleloading forums.  I tried different powder charges from 20 - 40 grains and all were about the same 1-1/2" group.  I was discouraged and wondered if I had somehow damaged the bore cleaning although I knew that I had taken care and used a bore guide.  A few days later I received the muzzle blast issue that had the article and test results on the lube as the load variable.  I got to thinking, maybe it was the lube, so I called my buddy and got the formula for the range lube he was using.  Sure enough, the rifle shot the one hole group with that lube.

There is a second chapter to this story.  A few months later, I bought a .50 cal rifle (my second flinter).  I have probably shot it about 250 times in the last 3 months.  The lube that I use in that rifle seems to make very little difference in the accuracy.  I can tell almost no difference in the 2 Moose Milk formulas, so I am using up the stuff that doesn't work in my .32.  It also seems to shoot about the same with mink oil, which is what I am going to use for my hunting lube.  However in the .50, the patch made a huge difference as did the powder charge.  The .50 cal shoots best with a very tightly patched ball and the more powder the better.  It shoots pretty well with anything 70 gr (ffg) and up, but seems to shoot best with around 90 gr.

I don't know if the lube makes more difference in the smaller calibers, or it just happens to be the case with my .32, but I would definitely try different lubes if I were you.  It made a HUGE difference in mine.

[billd]

Hey Roger,   you've seen me shoot offhand, what do you think?    If I could hold 2" or less offhand I'd be braggin'

Can't make it this weekend,  my daughter has 2 games  near Virginia Beach.
Bill