Bringing out the pattern in wood?

[frontier gander]

Guys, I started stripping my CVA Mountain Rifle last night and found a ton of pretty stuff under the ugly finish. I have a few stains from LMF that I normally use and it does a good job, but I am afraid of taking it to dark and hiding all of this. I see LMF has a stain called Ebony that supposedly highlights the grain but wasn't sure if that's what I am looking for. I've always ready about Fortis? but by the time the arguing and I do it this way, no, you should do it this way, I always shy away from it because its just flat out confusing with all the arguments you get over how to use it.

The stock is Maple. Any tips on what you'd use?

[dlbarr]

FG, I am no authority on this, but several posts on this board have encouraged me to use ferric nitrate on a current build of mine. I have it ordered from: https://www.sciencecompany.com/

Here is a demonstration of how the staining turns out.  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=17315.0

Very pleasing to my way of thinking.

[rich pierce]

That's fairly plain wood.  I don't think you'll get more than changing the color by re-staining. The growth rings tend to disappear with staining.  Figure is accentuated when more stain is taken up my end grain within the wood.  That is why curl shows up so well.  End grain and flat grain alternate when curly wood is planed of shaped.

[LehighBrad]

I agree with Rich.....that is a fairly plain piece of wood. Ever consider doing faux striping on it? Simple process. I did a very boring plain-Jane maple stock on my squirrel rifle a while back...turned out better than I thought it would. After sanding the whole stock down to bare wood, I hand painted the stripes on with various sizes of modeling brushes using Feibings medium brown leather dye. Then after allowing that to dry good, I rubbed the stock down with LMF nut brown stain, after that, 4 or 5 thin hand rubbed coats of Chambers finishing oil. Presto! Super premium A+++ curly maple........kinda. 

[frontier gander]

wow thats pretty darn awesome! I'll consider that now that i saw it done.

[E.vonAschwege]

All CVA stocks I've seen were made of Birch, which I found takes LMF pretty well.  If you want to fancy it up, then I'd either go with artificial striping, or play with different pigments/stains in your finish to highlight and create artificial wear.  It's amazing how beautiful a plain piece of wood can look when finished right.
-Eric

[KLMoors]

The LMF Ebony is super black. I use it for shading around carving, etc., but I don't think you'd want to stain the whole stock with it. I have found their maple and walnut stain the most useful.  Thin it down 50/50 with denatured alcohol and you can sneak up on the color you want.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Staining is an art and science.  It pays to understand a few basics.  First, aqua fortis was used on many period guns and brings out grain and figure nicely with the added bonus that it does not fade over time.  It is not hard to apply and would be a fine choice for your project.  It is acid and water based, which means it oxidizes the wood and in that process carries dissolved particles of iron into the wood fiber rather than coating it with color.  That means it does not mask the figure and grain, rather it accentuates it since the colorant is absorbed more in the softer wood and less in the harder wood.  I believe LMF is a pigment stain.  Pigment stains are particles of pigment (like paint) suspended (not dissolved) in a binder.  The particles of pigment are deposited into the pores of the wood coloring it.  However, they also mask grain and figure somewhat and they may fade over time.  Water, alcohol, and oil-based dyes are a bit more like acids in that they molecularly bond with the wood and do not mask grain or figure, rather they enhance it like the acids.  Many, such as aniline dyes, are very fade resistant but not nearly as permanent as the acid-based stains when exposed to UV light.  My suggestion, if you really want to bring out the grain as best you can, is to use aqua fortis or some other water-based acid stain or a water-based dye.  Jim Kibler does a fantastic job with plain wood demonstraing how it can be stunningly beautiful using a combination of stains and some light glazing.   

dave   

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I like Laurel Mt Forge stain.

According to their website: "LIGHT FAST - The dyes used in Antique Wood Stain are metal complexed solvent soluble dyes. These dyes are exceptionally light fast and in many cases are more light fast than pigmented stains"

If they are using "metal complexed solvent soluble dyes" as they claim, wouldn't it be the same or similar to Aquafortis?

[smart dog]

Hi Micah,
I am glad that LMF stains include dyes instead of pigment.  I stand corrected about them, thank you.  The answer to your question about them being the same as acid-based stains is no they are not the same.  The acids actually oxidize the wood, essentially aging it, along with carrying the iron color into the wood.  It is the oxidation that brings out the nice reddish undertones that seem to go deep into the wood.  If you just use dilute nitric acid, no dissolved iron, apply it to wood, let it dry, and then heat it to speed up the oxidation, the wood will turn a blushing pink color resulting from the process.  Secondly, that color is permanent and although dyes can be strongly fade resistent, I am not aware of one that is truly colorfast like an acid-based stain.

dave

[Jim Kibler]

In regards to aniline dyes, light fast is certainly a relative term.  Some colors are more susceptible to fading that others as well.  Then there's the issue of stain bleeding as Taylor has talked about.  And then there's the issue of them oftentimes not looking "right".  With enough care and skill, this last issue might be avoided, but all too often it's not.   Once you know what you're looking at, aniline dyes often seem to lack a lot.  At least in my view.  Sorry, to those who are strong proponents of them.  I know...  I have plenty of opinions. This is meant to help.  Let me also add, that I'm coming from an entirely different perspective than many though.  These dyes might be perfect for the approach taken by others and what they are trying to achieve.


Jim

[Hawken62_flint]

Frontier, I have to agree with some of what has been said so far and I by no way claim to be an expert.  But as for CVA Mountain Rifles, I suspect that I have refinished at least a half dozen or more of them.  And they are not all just plain wood, ash or poplar or some other nondiscript wood, I have refinisned several that were curly maple and one that was birdseye maple.  But for the most part on a rifle such as yours, I would stain it dark (if it were mine).  I would use AquaFortis or Magic Maple to get it dark, then maybe a LMF stain over that and then start rubbing it back with steel wool and linseed or LMF stock finish or Chambers oil till I got the desired effect (you will know when you like what you have).  Then I would finish it by putting on more coats of finish, whichever one I was using.  Just my 2 cents.

[frontier gander]

Heres an early mountain rifle I refinished many years ago. I used birchwood casey walnut stain with tru oil. I'll figure some color combo out, I didnt want to light a finish, just something to help pop what grain shows.

[frontier gander]

well I am happy  to say, I got my butt in gear and finished up the stock. I used 4 coats nut brown, 2 coats walnut LMF and once it was dry I knocked most of the stain back down until the stock was a deeper tan color. It looked to fake so I figured if I stained the stock and then knocked it down without leaving weak spots it should allow me to use less stain and make the color more natural. It worked too! I only applied 3 coats LMF nut brown and then 2 coats walnut, let it dry and lightly buffed with 0000 steel wool, applied BLO for aprox 30 minutes, wiped it off, did another coat of BLO and rubbed it in until you wanted to scream in pain.

 In sun light its an amber honey. In the shade it takes on the typical reddish brown color. Came out very nice and super happy with it. I am now applying the truoil which has just completely set it off. Many coats of this to go but I will be taking my time and applying them thin to avoid the "plastic" look finish.

I'll post pictures then.

[Artificer]

LehighBrad,

That faux grain effect you did on that stock is stunning. 
GUs

[LehighBrad]

Thanks for the kind words Artificer.....like I tell my shootin' buddies...it's like putting lipstick on an old pig.