Making a Tenn. style wrought iron buttplate

[Nordnecker]

I have forged the two pieces that I guess you'd call the "back plate" and "heel extension". Now, I need to put them together. I really don't want to stick weld 'em. So I suppose I need to file a joint of sorts between the two pieces, rivet them somehow, and braze them in the forge.
Do you do this in such a way as the rivet gets filed away after brazing?
As it will be pretty much impossible to clean the joint after it's riveted, Do I need to flux it before it scales in the fire?
Should I use brass or copper? Copper sheet cut to shape? Or maybe a little piece of # 14 wire?

[pbigham]

 I rivet the 2 parts and counter sink a little on the outside. Flux and use copper or brass. then file rivet down flush.

[David R. Pennington]

Get the parts to fit the way you want them then drill both pieces for the rivet. A small nail works fine. Clean both mating surfaces and rivet. Bend a couple pieces of brass wire to fit down in the inside of the joint. I usually find one piece won't quite fill the joint as much as I like. Put it in the fire heel down and heat till it will melt flux, (barely dull red) being careful not to get any dirt in it. Sprinkle in some more borax and bring the heat up slowly and when it gets to the right temperature it goes "poof" and the joint is made. Most of the rivet gets filed away and since it is iron it is barely noticeable. If the parts fit together well you will see a hairline of brass on the outside only.
I love doing these in the forge, it looks like magic!

[Hungry Horse]

 Being the crazy old guy that will pay good money for old rusty gun parts, sometimes has its advantages. A couple of years ago a young man brought a small bag full of muzzleloader parts to my door, and asked if I wanted to buy them. I asked how much, he gave me a number, and I gave him the money.
 They were Southern mountain style parts, that the young mans father had rescued from a house fire. The crown jewel of the lot was a nicely formed buttplate. I examined the plate carefully, and could find not find any sign of a rivet. I took it to a friend, that is a metal fabricator, and amateur blacksmith, and he too said, he couldn't see any sign of a rivet. So, we elected to dress off, with a file, the juncture of the "assumed" two piece buttplate, to try to discover how the two pieces were held together. We found that the plate was actually of one piece construction. A waist was filed into the one piece plate, and then the plate was bent to shape over a metal form. The corners were then forge brazed together.

                 Hungry Horse

[David R. Pennington]

Goes to prove that there is more than one way to skin a cat and you can't say dogmatically that "they always did it this or that way".

[Hungry Horse]

Ahmen brother, I only wish I had gotten the trigger guard. I suspect this old backwoods gunsmith had his own ideas as to how to make one of those also.

                   Hungry Horse

[Nordnecker]

Since posting this, I realize that my two parts aren't quite ready to be brazed. My back plate it a little too wide, and the heel extension is not really flat on top. I can see where the one-piece method would be really nice when finished. I wish some kid would come knocking on my door with a wrought iron TG and buttplate! Once again, I am reminded of the Blacksmith's motto: "WHY SHOULD I SPEND $20 ON SOMETHING I CAN MAKE IN 6 HRS?" 

[JB2]

 
Thanks Nord, I haven't laughed that hard in a while.  Now I got coffee on my keyboard!

[David R. Pennington]

Yeah I used to bulk at spending ten or twelve bucks for a good pair of tongs in the antique store till I made my first set.

[Dphariss]

I have forged the two pieces that I guess you'd call the "back plate" and "heel extension". Now, I need to put them together. I really don't want to stick weld 'em. So I suppose I need to file a joint of sorts between the two pieces, rivet them somehow, and braze them in the forge.
Do you do this in such a way as the rivet gets filed away after brazing?
As it will be pretty much impossible to clean the joint after it's riveted, Do I need to flux it before it scales in the fire?
Should I use brass or copper? Copper sheet cut to shape? Or maybe a little piece of # 14 wire?

Fix them together with a steel rivet or screw. Put brass scraps in the cavity with a some 100% Borax. Heat till the brass flows. Let cool. Clean up and polish.

Dan

[gunmaker]

On page 134 & 135 of Brockways book on shotguns he shows a diagram for a one piece butt plate...And lots of other good stuff in there as well...Tom

[Mark Elliott]

I do the same as Dan, but I am going to try the one piece. 

[Dennis Glazener]

Fix them together with a steel rivet or screw. Put brass scraps in the cavity with a some 100% Borax. Heat till the brass flows. Let cool. Clean up and polish.

Dan

I do pretty much the same except I use brass filing/chips/sawdust that I keep for that purpose. I have a commercial brazing flux that I think is pretty much all Boarax. I turn the heel down into the fire, put the brass in and then the flux. When the brass flows its done. Takes much longer to get the forge up to heat than to do the brazing, that's why I usually use a torch.
Dennis

[Metalshaper]

Being the crazy old guy that will pay good money for old rusty gun parts, sometimes has its advantages. A couple of years ago a young man brought a small bag full of muzzleloader parts to my door, and asked if I wanted to buy them. I asked how much, he gave me a number, and I gave him the money.
 They were Southern mountain style parts, that the young mans father had rescued from a house fire. The crown jewel of the lot was a nicely formed buttplate. I examined the plate carefully, and could find not find any sign of a rivet. I took it to a friend, that is a metal fabricator, and amateur blacksmith, and he too said, he couldn't see any sign of a rivet. So, we elected to dress off, with a file, the juncture of the "assumed" two piece buttplate, to try to discover how the two pieces were held together. We found that the plate was actually of one piece construction. A waist was filed into the one piece plate, and then the plate was bent to shape over a metal form. The corners were then forge brazed together.

                 Hungry Horse

This style of formed butt plate is shown, if not mistaken, in the old Foxfire series #5..under the section talking about Robert Watts.  There is a pic showing some cast plates but also a flat and its formed version.

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[gunmaker]

Thanks Nord, I'm gonna make a sign and hang that quote on the wall--if I can find the space......

[Dphariss]

Fix them together with a steel rivet or screw. Put brass scraps in the cavity with a some 100% Borax. Heat till the brass flows. Let cool. Clean up and polish.

Dan

I do pretty much the same except I use brass filing/chips/sawdust that I keep for that purpose. I have a commercial brazing flux that I think is pretty much all Boarax. I turn the heel down into the fire, put the brass in and then the flux. When the brass flows its done. Takes much longer to get the forge up to heat than to do the brazing, that's why I usually use a torch.
Dennis

I did my first one in 1968 or 69. Had a Farriers Forge set up in the old machinery shed. Used the pattern and descriptions from Baird's "Hawken Rifles".  Dad sold the place while I was in the Army and my forge went with it.

Dan

[shortbarrel]

Bought an old wrought iron but plate that had the two pieces welded. It was southern mountain. Not crude in any way. I said to myself if this builder could do this,why can't I do it. Made some that are on rifles. All work done in the forge.

[Nordnecker]

I don't know how to link this. Back on page 54, there is a post, "Forging an virginia iron buttplate" etc. Some good photos & comments.

Here is the post Nordecker is talking about: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21509.0

Edited by Dennis